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...and another NO.
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Politics
Issue 3 - Casino News & Updates
[538 posts] [98 contributors]
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gk
columbus, ohio
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dru wrote >>
gk wrote >>
dru wrote >>
Hael wrote >>
your yes vote means you just voted to approve a government mandated monopoly of one sector of the Ohio economy. it's not like Prohibition, and more like voting to mandate that we all buy Busch Light from one bar down in the Arena District.Nothing is fixed in stone. As we are seeing first hand, the Ohio Constitution can always be amended by the people of Ohio at any time.
But why create the need for a 2nd Constitutional Amendment - to repeal this one, followed by a 3rd - to draft new rules and regs governing casino gambling? It's a completely asinine way to do this versus "...approv[ing] a succinct amendment granting the governor and General Assembly the authority to draft statutes, rules and regulations for such enterprises. In this way, the state would retain leverage to properly license, govern and tax casinos." [Dispatch editorial] In the meantime if Issue 3 passes, you have a government mandated monopoly running the show.
As for "vibrant and colorful", is that actually how you would describe downtown Wheeling, Evansville or Gary? This leads to my other reason to vote No - the pollyannish views that casinos stimulate the local economy and create vibrancy around them. I'd like it to be true, but have seldom seen an instance where it actually is. And the lame attempt to pawn off Hollywood Casino on Columbus doesn't lead me to believe this will be an exception.It is likely to attract more visitors to our downtown who will stay in local hotels (pay bed taxes that fund many local programs) and eat in local restaurants. I have never been to Wheeling, Evansville or Gary because of general lack of interest regardless of whether they have casinos; I have been to Las Vegas and Lake Tahoe though.
Posted 2 years ago # -
kit444
Elsewhere
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dru wrote >>
gk wrote >>
dru wrote >>
Hael wrote >>
your yes vote means you just voted to approve a government mandated monopoly of one sector of the Ohio economy. it's not like Prohibition, and more like voting to mandate that we all buy Busch Light from one bar down in the Arena District.Nothing is fixed in stone. As we are seeing first hand, the Ohio Constitution can always be amended by the people of Ohio at any time.
But why create the need for a 2nd Constitutional Amendment - to repeal this one, followed by a 3rd - to draft new rules and regs governing casino gambling?
It's much too easy to amend the state constitution, which is riddled with referendums reflecting whatever the hot button issue of the day was. At the risk of sounding undemocratic, these referendums need to be restricted. Amending a constitution at either the state or federal level should be done only for essential functions that need corrected--not whether a casino should go in down the street.
Posted 2 years ago # -
joev
Merion Village
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JonMyers wrote >>
Hael - My reasons for a no vote aren't really based on the social impact. I'm a gambler and I like gambling. The monopoly that issue 3 creates makes no sense.
We would be giving away the gambling licenses at $50 million a piece. There is every indication and precedent out there, which indicates these licenses would fetch $250 million a piece on the free market.
Why in the hell would we potentially give away $500 million dollars? I can think of only two reasons. Either the people running the state are complete morons or they have engineered a way to have their hands in the cookie jar.Or the people who would have to pay those licensing fees wrote their own constitutional amendment to suit themselves.
Posted 2 years ago # -
dru
IV
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gk wrote
It is likely to attract more visitors to our downtown who will stay in local hotels (pay bed taxes that fund many local programs) and eat in local restaurants. I have never been to Wheeling, Evansville or Gary because of general lack of interest regardless of whether they have casinos; I have been to Las Vegas and Lake Tahoe though.
In the spirit of wagering, I'll place a drink at the new Hollywood casino (should it pass), that after 1-year this is nothing like Vegas and Tahoe and very much like Evansville.
I have no idea how to measure that - but perhaps we could use size of facility, influx of tourism, quality of restaurants or star power of entertainment. all a bit nebulous to define. but if you're thinking dinner at a Bobby Flay's Mesa Grill followed by Cher at Ceaser's, I'd get ready to settle for Max & Erma's followed by Billy Ocean at Casino Aztar (Evansville - http://www.casinoaztar.com).
Posted 2 years ago # -
gk
columbus, ohio
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kit444 wrote >>
dru wrote >>
gk wrote >>
dru wrote >>
Hael wrote >>
your yes vote means you just voted to approve a government mandated monopoly of one sector of the Ohio economy. it's not like Prohibition, and more like voting to mandate that we all buy Busch Light from one bar down in the Arena District.Nothing is fixed in stone. As we are seeing first hand, the Ohio Constitution can always be amended by the people of Ohio at any time.
But why create the need for a 2nd Constitutional Amendment - to repeal this one, followed by a 3rd - to draft new rules and regs governing casino gambling?
It's much too easy to amend the state constitution, which is riddled with referendums reflecting whatever the hot button issue of the day was. At the risk of sounding undemocratic, these referendums need to be restricted. Amending a constitution at either the state or federal level should be done only for essential functions that need corrected--not whether a casino should go in down the street.
Constitutions have also been amended to grant individual rights - remember the "bill of rights?" I therefore totally disagree that amending constitutions should be done only for essential functions that need corrected.
Posted 2 years ago # -
osulew
My house...in the middle of my street
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joev wrote >>
JonMyers wrote >>
Hael - My reasons for a no vote aren't really based on the social impact. I'm a gambler and I like gambling. The monopoly that issue 3 creates makes no sense.
We would be giving away the gambling licenses at $50 million a piece. There is every indication and precedent out there, which indicates these licenses would fetch $250 million a piece on the free market.
Why in the hell would we potentially give away $500 million dollars? I can think of only two reasons. Either the people running the state are complete morons or they have engineered a way to have their hands in the cookie jar.Or the people who would have to pay those licensing fees wrote their own constitutional amendment to suit themselves.
silly joev...stop making sense already! ;)
Posted 2 years ago # -
kit444
Elsewhere
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gk wrote >>
kit444 wrote >>
dru wrote >>
gk wrote >>
dru wrote >>
Hael wrote >>
your yes vote means you just voted to approve a government mandated monopoly of one sector of the Ohio economy. it's not like Prohibition, and more like voting to mandate that we all buy Busch Light from one bar down in the Arena District.Nothing is fixed in stone. As we are seeing first hand, the Ohio Constitution can always be amended by the people of Ohio at any time.
But why create the need for a 2nd Constitutional Amendment - to repeal this one, followed by a 3rd - to draft new rules and regs governing casino gambling?
It's much too easy to amend the state constitution, which is riddled with referendums reflecting whatever the hot button issue of the day was. At the risk of sounding undemocratic, these referendums need to be restricted. Amending a constitution at either the state or federal level should be done only for essential functions that need corrected--not whether a casino should go in down the street.
Constitutions have also been amended to grant rights - remember the "bill of rights?" I therefore totally disagree that amending constitutions should be done only for essential functions that need corrected.
I agree with that. My terminology was limiting, but it's beside my basic point. The Bill of Rights were instituted via a restrictive process that's still in effect today (and not all of them were ratified--there were 12 proposed). I think amending the constitution by referendum trivilizes what the constitution is supposed to represent, which is an essential framework of governance and the rights of citizens.
Posted 2 years ago # -
gk
columbus, ohio
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kit444 wrote >>
gk wrote >>
kit444 wrote >>
dru wrote >>
gk wrote >>
dru wrote >>
Hael wrote >>
your yes vote means you just voted to approve a government mandated monopoly of one sector of the Ohio economy. it's not like Prohibition, and more like voting to mandate that we all buy Busch Light from one bar down in the Arena District.Nothing is fixed in stone. As we are seeing first hand, the Ohio Constitution can always be amended by the people of Ohio at any time.
But why create the need for a 2nd Constitutional Amendment - to repeal this one, followed by a 3rd - to draft new rules and regs governing casino gambling?
It's much too easy to amend the state constitution, which is riddled with referendums reflecting whatever the hot button issue of the day was. At the risk of sounding undemocratic, these referendums need to be restricted. Amending a constitution at either the state or federal level should be done only for essential functions that need corrected--not whether a casino should go in down the street.
Constitutions have also been amended to grant rights - remember the "bill of rights?" I therefore totally disagree that amending constitutions should be done only for essential functions that need corrected.
I agree with that. My terminology was limiting, but it's beside my basic point. The Bill of Rights were instituted via a restrictive process that's still in effect today (and not all of them were ratified--there were 12 proposed). I think amending the constitution by referendum trivilizes what the constitution is supposed to represent, which is an essential framework of governance and the rights of citizens.
Would that include the right to gamble in Ohio?
Posted 2 years ago # -
WildmanDan
W. Hubbard/Vic Village
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I voted NO! Letting Penn change our State Law
is wrong.Posted 2 years ago # -
gk
columbus, ohio
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misskitty
Columbus
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gk wrote >>
misskitty wrote >>
I am going to have to vote no.
Besides if anyone changes our state laws shouldn’t it be us?If the law is changed, it will be because a majority of Ohio registered voters decided to change the law.
But are we the ones writing in the amendment? Or is it the casino people? I guess that is where I am getting confused. I think whatever is written in should be in our terms not someone trying to build.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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dru wrote >>
If you're thinking dinner at a Bobby Flay's Mesa Grill followed by Cher at Ceaser's, I'd get ready to settle for Max & Erma's followed by Billy Ocean at Casino Aztar (Evansville - http://www.casinoaztar.com).Agreed. There is absolutely no reason that Ohioans should be expected to settle for something sub-par.
(Nothing against Max & Erma's)
Posted 2 years ago # -
berdawn
near that stretch of N. High Street in the Short North
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dru wrote >>
Hael wrote >>
I voted No to a Nanny State.
Take many of the 'social impact' reasons people are using to justify their "No" vote here and apply those reasons to the legality of Alcohol. (apples and oranges, strawman, yeah yeah, blah blah blah). Well, lets bring back Prohibition, shall we?the issue isn't with gambling alone, I think most the No voters like myself have stated that we've gambled elsewhere and are not entirely adverse to having it in the state. the larger issue is with how the proposal is written.
your yes vote means you just voted to approve a government mandated monopoly of one sector of the Ohio economy. it's not like Prohibition, and more like voting to mandate that we all buy Busch Light from one bar down in the Arena District.wouldn't it be more like that ONLY place one could buy Busch Light was from one bar down in the AD?
Posted 2 years ago # -
gk
columbus, ohio
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aaminian wrote >>
gk wrote >>
Voted Yes. 24/7/365 casinos will provide for a more vibrant and colorful downtown. The extra revenue will also come in handy.You mean like the "vibrant and colorful" downtown of Windsor, Ontario? Oh, wait...
I've never been to Windsor again because of a general lack of interest regardless of whether it has casinos. I prefer visiting more cosmopolitan cities, such as New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Vancouver, Montreal, etc. - you get the gist.
Posted 2 years ago # -
kit444
Elsewhere
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gk wrote >>
kit444 wrote >>
gk wrote >>
kit444 wrote >>
dru wrote >>
gk wrote >>
dru wrote >>
Hael wrote >>
your yes vote means you just voted to approve a government mandated monopoly of one sector of the Ohio economy. it's not like Prohibition, and more like voting to mandate that we all buy Busch Light from one bar down in the Arena District.Nothing is fixed in stone. As we are seeing first hand, the Ohio Constitution can always be amended by the people of Ohio at any time.
But why create the need for a 2nd Constitutional Amendment - to repeal this one, followed by a 3rd - to draft new rules and regs governing casino gambling?
It's much too easy to amend the state constitution, which is riddled with referendums reflecting whatever the hot button issue of the day was. At the risk of sounding undemocratic, these referendums need to be restricted. Amending a constitution at either the state or federal level should be done only for essential functions that need corrected--not whether a casino should go in down the street.
Constitutions have also been amended to grant rights - remember the "bill of rights?" I therefore totally disagree that amending constitutions should be done only for essential functions that need corrected.
I agree with that. My terminology was limiting, but it's beside my basic point. The Bill of Rights were instituted via a restrictive process that's still in effect today (and not all of them were ratified--there were 12 proposed). I think amending the constitution by referendum trivilizes what the constitution is supposed to represent, which is an essential framework of governance and the rights of citizens.
Would that include the right to gamble in Ohio?
Perhaps, but such an amendment should be broad: "Ohioans shall have the right to gamble." and then the General Assembly should write the laws in the Revised Code to govern how that right is enforced.
Again, the point isn't about the merits of gambling or livestock panels or anything else. The point is that something that should be codified in the O.R.C. is enscribed in the state constitution because someone was able to get enough signatures on a petition and a majority of probably a 20% turnout voted for it. I think there should be a higher standard for amending the constitution. The way it is now, the exact wording of an amendment is drafted by the interest group pushing that issue. If it gets 50.1% of the vote, then neither the state courts or the elected representatives of the people can touch it because it's in the constitution.
Back to this issue specifically, not only does Issue 3 enable gambling in Ohio but who will be the proprietor of it and where it is to be located. There will be no area for debate or deliberation, no room for legal challenges because neither the General Assembly or the Ohio Supreme Court can overturn what is in the constitution. The only recourse is yet another referendum.
Posted 2 years ago # -
kit444
Elsewhere
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jodyNcolumbus wrote >>
I hope it fails - but if it passes, do you think Columbus has any say in changing the proposed location? I have heard of no one but the developers in favor of putting it at the end of Nationwide Blvd.Looking at the amendment, it appears that the parcel of land is specified. So, no.
Posted 2 years ago # -
kit444
Elsewhere
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In the issue summary for the amendment:
"The casino in Columbus, Ohio will be located on approximately 18.312 acres currently known as 560 Nationwide Blvd., located on the north side of Nationwide Blvd., west of the railroad overpass and west of the new Franklin County ballpark facility"
As it will read in Article XV, Section 6 of the Ohio Constitution:
"(C)(9)(b) Columbus:
Being an approximate 18.312 acre area in the City of Columbus, Franklin County, Ohio, as identified by the Franklin County Auditor, as of 03/05/09, as tax parcel numbers 010-005518-80, 010-005518-90, 010-020215-80, 010-020215-90, 010-008443-80 and 010-008443-90."
Posted 2 years ago #
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