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YouTubeI know it is late in the day, but I just say this Dispatch Hot Issue poll. It asks, "Should Ohio outlaw discrimination based on sexual orientation?" I thought the question absurd until I saw the current results. 24% of people support discrimination, often with Bible quotes (I didn't think discrimination of any kind was a religious issue). I would love to see CUers weigh in on this...
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Dispatch poll - discrimination based on sexual orientation
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Daz
Tweeting about some totally unimportant event
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Honestly, if I were a cut throat business owner and I had to choose between a homosexual male and a heterosexual male, I'd probably take the homosexual.
Statistics tell me that they're less likely to have a family, and therefore will more likely focus on work and lead my company to greater success.
But, since I'm not a cut throat business person, I think discrimination in all forms is really ridiculous. Qualifications are qualifications.
Posted 4 years ago # -
mightymighty
North Side
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ya know... I know it takes all kinds to make all kinds but I can't believe people are actually voting no to this on this board.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Coremodels
Really close to Explorer's Club.
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mightymighty wrote ya know... I know it takes all kinds to make all kinds but I can't believe people are actually voting no to this on this board.
lol...come on, you knew at least ONE person was going to be contrarian.
Posted 4 years ago # -
mightymighty
North Side
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you have a point :)
Posted 4 years ago # -
drew
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When it comes to hiring practices, it's a no brainer to me... discrimination laws make total sense.
When it comes to firing, I'm a little less certain. Clearly, it's wrong wrong wrong to fire someone based upon their orientation. However, if firing someone from any given group (in this case gays) can become a lawsuit worthy offense due to them being a part of that group, doesn't it essentially make it harder/potentially really damaging to fire anyone from that group for legitimate reasons or let them go due to cutbacks?
I suppose the same could be said for hiring practices, but it seems harder to prove that there was discrimination, while it seems harder to prove that there wasn't discrimination in a firing.
I dunno... I'm certainly no lawyer. The intent is entirely sound to me, just not entirely sure about the mechanics of it.
Posted 4 years ago # -
cmhcow
shhh... i am right behind you!
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Drew wrote When it comes to firing, I'm a little less certain. Clearly, it's wrong wrong wrong to fire someone based upon their orientation. However, if firing someone from any given group (in this case gays) can become a lawsuit worthy offense due to them being a part of that group, doesn't it essentially make it harder/potentially really damaging to fire anyone from that group for legitimate reasons or let them go due to cutbacks?
i have been involved the firing of a broad spectrum of NWM (non white males). in my opinion, they all overstayed their welcome and i presume most knew it, because out of the 10-12 i can think of, only three tried to stir the pot based up their specific NWM status (and one of those two had a sexual relationship with someone in the corporation that was hoped would provide s/he leverage). one actually lawyered up. you bring up a good point. we don't want to legislate away our ability to fire people who suck, just because they are in a protected class. if i have learned anything in my life, it is that everyone sucks pretty much equally. i am just saddened that so many people on the big D's poll are more than happy to discriminate. i am truly bothered by people who don't care about shit until it affects them directly. that never works out well historically.
no senator mccarthy, i am not a communist.
no lieutenant krahling, i am not a jew.
no captain lui, i do not follow the dali lama.
no centurion, i don't know this jesus of nazareth.
Posted 4 years ago # -
gramarye
In Exile
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Drew wrote When it comes to hiring practices, it's a no brainer to me... discrimination laws make total sense.
When it comes to firing, I'm a little less certain. Clearly, it's wrong wrong wrong to fire someone based upon their orientation. However, if firing someone from any given group (in this case gays) can become a lawsuit worthy offense due to them being a part of that group, doesn't it essentially make it harder/potentially really damaging to fire anyone from that group for legitimate reasons or let them go due to cutbacks?
I suppose the same could be said for hiring practices, but it seems harder to prove that there was discrimination, while it seems harder to prove that there wasn't discrimination in a firing.
I dunno... I'm certainly no lawyer. The intent is entirely sound to me, just not entirely sure about the mechanics of it.
The same can indeed be said for hiring practices. Even more so, in fact.
Keep in mind that most lawsuits settle and even a month or two of litigation can be disastrous for a small business. A lot of businesses will let themselves get fleeced for a settlement rather than take their chances drawing a bleeding-heart judge, never mind racking up defense costs that they don't get back even if they win.
A "lawsuit-worthy offense" doesn't even have to be one that will actually win. Just one that looks scary enough to get the plaintiff--and his lawyer--paid off.
Posted 4 years ago # -
gramarye
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My guess is that most employers consider it a slap in the face when they get accused of firing anyone for any reason other than that said individual wasn't pulling their weight, or that it was simply tight times and there wasn't enough work (or budget room) for everyone.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Mercurius
First Avenue
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gramarye wrote My guess is that most employers consider it a slap in the face when they get accused of firing anyone for any reason other than that said individual wasn't pulling their weight, or that it was simply tight times and there wasn't enough work (or budget room) for everyone.
Yet even on these boards, three people think it is dandy to fire someone solely for their sexual orientation. I would imagine if you were fired by some religious zealot for your sexual orientation, that would kinda be a bit of a "slap in the face" also, and it does happen.Posted 4 years ago # -
Matthew
Hilltop
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Good point. I've always been open so I've never been accused of it outside of that. I imagine it burns anyone not guilty of it.
I was just saying that as a person who knows firsthand what it is to be discriminated against it always comes as a shock no matter how often it happens.
Posted 4 years ago # -
gramarye
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Mercurius wrote
gramarye wrote My guess is that most employers consider it a slap in the face when they get accused of firing anyone for any reason other than that said individual wasn't pulling their weight, or that it was simply tight times and there wasn't enough work (or budget room) for everyone.
Yet even on these boards, three people think it is dandy to fire someone solely for their sexual orientation. I would imagine if you were fired by some religious zealot for your sexual orientation, that would kinda be a bit of a "slap in the face" also, and it does happen.Except that that's not what the poll question asked. The question asked if Ohio should outlaw discrimination based on orientation, not whether business should actually discriminate based on orientation. In other words, the question was "should we create another variety of lawsuit," not "is sexual-orientation discrimination moral or justified."
Posted 4 years ago # -
Coremodels
Really close to Explorer's Club.
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I'd be curious to hear from Sherm on this, since he's a gay man working in a typically blue collar field (construction). I would think the discrimination much higher in that sector than white collar type jobs.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Mercurius
First Avenue
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gramarye wrote
I do not see this type of discrimination any differently than based on sex or race. Maybe we should just go back to the 1950's before that pesky civil rights movement started. While I agree that there needs to be a focus on finding ways of throwing out frivolous lawsuits, many of these are not.Mercurius wrote
gramarye wrote My guess is that most employers consider it a slap in the face when they get accused of firing anyone for any reason other than that said individual wasn't pulling their weight, or that it was simply tight times and there wasn't enough work (or budget room) for everyone.
Yet even on these boards, three people think it is dandy to fire someone solely for their sexual orientation. I would imagine if you were fired by some religious zealot for your sexual orientation, that would kinda be a bit of a "slap in the face" also, and it does happen.Except that that's not what the poll question asked. The question asked if Ohio should outlaw discrimination based on orientation, not whether business should actually discriminate based on orientation. In other words, the question was "should we create another variety of lawsuit," not "is sexual-orientation discrimination moral or justified."
Posted 4 years ago # -
gramarye
In Exile
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Mercurius wrote I do not see this type of discrimination any differently than based on sex or race.
Neither do I.
I don't think those employment discrimination laws should be on the books, either. I favor at-will employment.
I am comfortable with nondiscrimination laws in public accommodation. Not employment. If an employer fires someone or declines to hire someone, it should be assumed that they're motivated by their bottom line, not by animus. If they're so blinded by their own idiocy that they'll send good employees elsewhere in favor of bad ones who just happen to be straight white males, the market will sort them out quickly enough. (I also don't understand the point of suing to get a job where your boss will hate you from the outset, but that's no part of the source of my view on the law.)
Posted 4 years ago # -
Mercurius
First Avenue
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For the most part, we are an at-will state (Montana is the only one that is not.) However, your invisible hand doesn't take into account bigotry. These people exist in all levels of society. This particular issue is worse because it is more than bigotry; it is religious fundamentalism. I know multiple people who feel being gay is a sin, but then again the main watershed in my hometown is Republican Run.
Posted 4 years ago #
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