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Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion

161. 

     my medium is dying
     Bangs, ohio
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     Andrew Hall wrote >>
     And I would determine what topics I want. I already do this with my various feeds.

     The point has been beaten to death by now. But whatever new journalism model emerges, I would hope it avoids personalized news feeds.

     We already have enough trouble as it is, i.e., news filters with bias. Watch Fox and MSNBC -- whichever makes you more uncomfortable.

     Eat your peas!!!

     Shit! I have to attend a news meeting and I haven't even had time to scrounge CU for my next list of story ideas.

     I will need you to PM me with leads.

     Posted 6 months ago # |
162. 

     rus
     
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     my medium is dying wrote >>

     We need to be exposed to writers we don't like, bias we don't like and topics we are not interested in.
     I hope you understand why this is important.

     Actually, that's why I come here.

     Posted 6 months ago # |
163. 

     KittyM
     Columbus/Worthington
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     [/quote]That also begs the question - is that reasonably something that a newspaper should be doing? Most restaurant opening pieces are redaction of press releases. Considering I can get that information directly and more fully, what role should a newspaper even play?

     +1, & not just restaurant coverage.
     For PR info on any business, government agency, politician, non-profit, whatever, go to their website. Follow them on Twitter. Wendy's still updates their MySpace.
     Why read anything that is a rewritten press release, whether its published in a newspaper or posted on a news agg website? Sure, there's a new-brief point to simply reposting or reporting on PR items, but that's not the real value in papers/magazines/websites. I read what I read online & on racks for reporters/bloggers original reporting and reviews. In a perfect media run by Aaron Marshall, Jon Myers, The Teet and Walker, these types would be handsomely paid. Old is the new new.

     Posted 6 months ago # |
164. 

     Twixlen
     Westgate, Columbus
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     Andrew Hall wrote
     You utterly miss the point though. As it is configured, it takes me more time than it is worth to find information I want on the Dispatch web site. It isn't a matter of filtering out different perspectives, it is that I want to be able to read more within the limited time that I have. Personalizing the topics I am interested in and aggregating them makes me more efficient and means I can read more - from all sorts of perspectives.
     A.

     That's the website's issue... and the Dispatch knows they have a problem with the website, for whatever reason, they are slow to change it. There is a real problem in the searchability of particular stories, the organization of the site overall is a little too flea market for my brain

     I think the Dispatch offers valuable content - the new set up of the Politics section is great, and I find myself there about daily, catching up on Ohio-centric news.

     And again, the way the comments are handled (or not handled) by that topix.net site reflects terribly on the Dispatch.

     Posted 6 months ago # |
165. 

     Andrew Hall
     Dennison Place (The Circles)
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     Twixlen wrote That's the website's issue... and the Dispatch knows they have a problem with the website, for whatever reason, they are slow to change it. There is a real problem in the searchability of particular stories, the organization of the site overall is a little too flea market for my brain.

     That is *exactly* the point. Mentally, they (and you) are seperating "the website" from the Dispatch. And that is why it fails.

     A.

     Posted 6 months ago # |
166. 

     berdawn
     Weinland Park
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     Andrew Hall wrote >>

     The "news" is really found, raw material. What matters is the value-added to it or individual labor saved (from not needing to find the information personally). The Dispatch and other traditional media are floundering because they have become more parasitic. They seldom add value and too often rely on 'he said, she said' dueling quotes from readily available sources. In many situations, I can find the original information in less time than the value of the subscription. A City Council meeting, for example.
     What makes something like CU more successful is that it is adding value to the resource of "news."

     "information" may just be lying around, but it takes journalists and organizations willing to pay them to find out how information fits together to make it be "news". I haven't filed any FOI lawsuits, lately, and I doubt that a discussion board such as this will do so either, but god damn am I grateful for those writers who do.

     Posted 6 months ago # |
167. 

     Andrew Hall
     Dennison Place (The Circles)
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     berdawn wrote >>

     Andrew Hall wrote >>
     The "news" is really found, raw material. What matters is the value-added to it or individual labor saved (from not needing to find the information personally). The Dispatch and other traditional media are floundering because they have become more parasitic. They seldom add value and too often rely on 'he said, she said' dueling quotes from readily available sources. In many situations, I can find the original information in less time than the value of the subscription. A City Council meeting, for example.
     What makes something like CU more successful is that it is adding value to the resource of "news."

     "information" may just be lying around, but it takes journalists and organizations willing to pay them to find out how information fits together to make it be "news". I haven't filed any FOI lawsuits, lately, and I doubt that a discussion board such as this will do so either, but god damn am I grateful for those writers who do.

     Did you actually read what I wrote?

     What percentage of stories in the Dispatch actually require filing an FOIA *request,* let alone an actual lawsuit? (I will bet the answer is approaching zero since FOIA is a Federal statute, but that is just pedantry.) The percentage for state comparable is also really, really small.

     If the Dispatch and others did more than just cut-n-paste press releases, they would have more value precisely as I said. Yours is just one example of that value - doing something that it is time or resource-prohibitive for an individual.

     Yes, I have filed FOIA requests.

     A.

     Posted 6 months ago # |
168. 

     Twixlen
     Westgate, Columbus
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     Andrew Hall wrote
     If the Dispatch and others did more than just cut-n-paste press releases, they would have more value precisely as I said. Yours is just one example of that value - doing something that it is time or resource-prohibitive for an individual.
     A.

     Yes - many of the news sites (papers, web only, etc) use the handy cut 'n' paste feature to quickly move information off the AP and into their sites. However, to imply that it's the bulk of the Dispatch's content does the paper and it's writers a disservice.

     Posted 6 months ago # |
169. 

     Andrew Hall
     Dennison Place (The Circles)
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     Twixlen wrote >>

     Andrew Hall wrote
     If the Dispatch and others did more than just cut-n-paste press releases, they would have more value precisely as I said. Yours is just one example of that value - doing something that it is time or resource-prohibitive for an individual.
     A.

     Yes - many of the news sites (papers, web only, etc) use the handy cut 'n' paste feature to quickly move information off the AP and into their sites. However, to imply that it's the bulk of the Dispatch's content does the paper and it's writers a disservice.

     That is not what I am talking about.

     Way too many articles are "he said, she said" alternating paragraphs in which the source material is not even from direct interviews. Look at this article : GOP branded hypocrites for stance on stimulus It is one sentence paragraphs with each sentence either being a quote (from news conference or press release) or a summary of a quote. Another article on Medicaid rolls is a summary of someone else's work. It has 13 paragraphs of which two are more than a sentence. (They are two sentences.) That is cut-n-paste reportage. This style represents the dominant method of producing articles.

     A.

     Posted 6 months ago # |
170. 

     berdawn
     Weinland Park
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     Andrew Hall wrote >>

     berdawn wrote >>

     Andrew Hall wrote >>
     The "news" is really found, raw material. What matters is the value-added to it or individual labor saved (from not needing to find the information personally). The Dispatch and other traditional media are floundering because they have become more parasitic. They seldom add value and too often rely on 'he said, she said' dueling quotes from readily available sources. In many situations, I can find the original information in less time than the value of the subscription. A City Council meeting, for example.
     What makes something like CU more successful is that it is adding value to the resource of "news."

     "information" may just be lying around, but it takes journalists and organizations willing to pay them to find out how information fits together to make it be "news". I haven't filed any FOI lawsuits, lately, and I doubt that a discussion board such as this will do so either, but god damn am I grateful for those writers who do.

     Did you actually read what I wrote?
     What percentage of stories in the Dispatch actually require filing an FOIA *request,* let alone an actual lawsuit? (I will bet the answer is approaching zero since FOIA is a Federal statute, but that is just pedantry.) The percentage for state comparable is also really, really small.
     If the Dispatch and others did more than just cut-n-paste press releases, they would have more value precisely as I said. Yours is just one example of that value - doing something that it is time or resource-prohibitive for an individual.
     Yes, I have filed FOIA requests.
     A.

     why, yes, I actually read what you wrote. interestingly enough, that is why I replied, quoting your statements with which I quibble. I'm really surprised you didn't know that. oh, wait...you didn't really need to ask that did you? thanks for the assholism...it's like a little ray of sunshine.

     Your statements did not reference ONLY the Dispatch but also "traditional media". I know the FOI act is a federal statute, why would that matter? Would not an FOI request be necessary to reveal relationships between federal $ and local contracts? Or representatives who serve on the federal level?

     If you wish to spend your time assembling information, hooray for you...I like my news to be well-researched and edited. Do I lurve the Dispatch? no, but I recognize that aggregate sites and blogs could not have put together the pentagon papers or even the recent NYT series on water quality.

     Posted 6 months ago # |
171. 

     lisathewaitress
     
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     Andrew Hall wrote >>
     Is anyone else enjoying the spectacle of customers telling a business what they want and the business replying, "No! This is what you will get."
     And then the business wondering why they are floundering.
     A.

     That's what I was trying to say last night!! We really want a better paper, and we are offering some really great suggestions on how they could make it better and they keep telling us we're the only ones who want it! Either that or it isn't really what we want!

     Which is kind of feeding into the original argument: the Dispatch isn't listening to their customers or adapting to change! it's frustrating!!

     Posted 6 months ago # |
172. 

     lisathewaitress
     
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     my medium is dying wrote >>

     Andrew Hall wrote >>
     Is anyone else enjoying the spectacle of customers telling a business what they want and the business replying, "No! This is what you will get."
     And then the business wondering why they are floundering.
     A.

     But you want something stupid.
     Because you understand the importance of differing views and topics, I'm sure you would feel most comfortable if you knew there were writers out there attending all the meetings and covering all sorts of beats and topics that anyone could possibly want to read about -- But you want to us to determine which articles would interest you, aggregate them and feed them to you through a reader.
     And you don't want to pay for it.

     I might be in the minority, but I personally read way more websites from writers I don't like or agree with than the ones I do. I am pretty sure this is because I am wildly juvenile and reading what crazy/stupid/ignorant people write is much funnier and makes me feel better about myself than reading things written by people who are smarter than i am.

     This entire site is exempt from the above, of course.

     Posted 6 months ago # |
173. 

     manticore33
     Delaware, OH
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     my medium is dying wrote >>

     Andrew Hall wrote >>
     And I would determine what topics I want. I already do this with my various feeds.

     The point has been beaten to death by now. But whatever new journalism model emerges, I would hope it avoids personalized news feeds.
     We already have enough trouble as it is, i.e., news filters with bias. Watch Fox and MSNBC -- whichever makes you more uncomfortable.
     Eat your peas!!!
     Shit! I have to attend a news meeting and I haven't even had time to scrounge CU for my next list of story ideas.
     I will need you to PM me with leads.

     Public media? Why not subsidize the newspapers like radio and television. Some of the best, most comprehensive programming comes from public media. Since there are no profit motives, the reporters can provide the breadth, depth, and quality we all desire. Likewise, the expert journalists will be compensated for their contributions. As a consumer, donate or 'pay' to show support for public media. And, if you are unable to, then still enjoy it too.

     For profit models do work, but not for everything. Given that, I am not a socialist, but some businesses or services need to subsidized to maintain affordability, quality of life, and equal access (libraries, schools / education, roads and transportation, select utilities, and etc).

     Posted 6 months ago # |
174. 

     pecuniadea
     victorian village
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     Aaron Marshall wrote >>

     pecuniadea wrote >>
     Marshall's just salty because the topic is on the Dispatch and not the Plain Dealer :)

     You're blowing my carefully constructed cover, Lucky...

     aww cmon marshall...anyone with an elementary latin education or good googling skills can translate my cover...maybe next week i'll start a thread dedicated to the pee dee :)

     Posted 6 months ago # |
175. 

     michaelcoyote
     seabus
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     A Challenger Appears: http://blogs.hbr.org/haque/2009/07/the_nichepaper_manifesto.html

     Posted 6 months ago # |
176. 

     alexs
     Limestone bluffs of the Scioto
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     michaelcoyote wrote >>
     A Challenger Appears: http://blogs.hbr.org/haque/2009/07/the_nichepaper_manifesto.html

     Interesting, some of that is happening on CU, like topics with multiple contributors over time.

     One niche that I don't see serviced much is the "what ever happened to __?" where some news story that was all over the media quietly disappears and you have a hard time finding out what ever became of it.

     Posted 6 months ago # |
177. 

     Walker
     The KLD / Downtown
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     Posted 6 months ago # |
178. 

     rus
     
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     Walker wrote >>
     

     Wow... LOL!!

     Posted 6 months ago # |
179. 

     agtw31
     columbus
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     funny stuff

     Posted 6 months ago # |
180. 

     Bear
     The woods
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     Walker wrote >>
     

     That is glorious.

     Posted 6 months ago # |