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Shit.
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion
Dispatch Contemplates Going Pay/Subscription for Online Content
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my medium is dying
Bangs, ohio
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Posted 1 year ago # -
dmerkow
Uptown Westerville
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I don't doubt that Craigslist filled a useful gap, but it remains that classified advertising was the backbone of the industry. You say they should have been more flexible, well yes they should have kept the paywalls high (like the WSJ) and the probably should have sued the crap of folks (like Google and early versions of BBs) that appropriated their information wholesale.
I still don't understand the hating on the Dispatch and newspapers in general. What did they ever do to you?
To the question of decline. There is no golden age, but that also doesn't mean that there aren't trajectories - in terms of the quality of written material produced for a mass market on a daily basis. You simply couldn't beat large city dailies from the last quarter of the 19C through the beginning of the Great Depression (though really WWI killed a lot of fantastic papers - Cincinnati Commercial for instance). I would argue that the quality of written material produced today is for a shorter attention and at a lower quality than was case even 15 years ago. Our society has become increasingly fearful at targeting anything that isn't the lowest common denominator. American society used to have a greater weight on grasping upward, but since the 60s we have increasing seen the elites ape the bottom rungs of society. This is a classic marker of a society coming apart. Rome after 200 A.D. as one example.
To comment threads, don't read them.
Posted 1 year ago # -
lisathewaitress
SoHud
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my medium is dying wrote >>
What Aaron is trying to say, and rightfully so, is that We Brought You Into This World, ColumbusUnderground.
And we will take you out.
xoxo,
teetDamn Teet!!! Where ya been?! People have been looking for you, ya know. If you tweeted you'd know. Come back!! We miss you!
Posted 1 year ago # -
lisathewaitress
SoHud
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@dmerkow - I can see how it seems that we are hating, and to be honest sometimes it feels that way too. But if you look through the thread, you will see that a lot of us have been offering advice (for freee!) to them on exactly how they could get our attention. If they stopped thinking it was hate and started realizing that we are telling them, in exact detail, what they could do to entice us, they might actually be able to save themselves (for as much as we count). These are things they would pay focus groups thousands of $$ to do! The people on this website could literally implement these things. For cheap! People on this very site could re-brand, re-logo, re-conceptualize the paper. They could create new sections and subsections of the paper, create videos and other interactive content. The could get out into new and exciting places in the city. They could moderate content and encourage intelligent conversation. I think a lot of people here are just saying "look! your answers are right in front of you if you will listen!"
No one wants their city to have a sucky paper!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Talcott
Clintonville
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dmerkow wrote >>
I don't doubt that Craigslist filled a useful gap, but it remains that classified advertising was the backbone of the industry. You say they should have been more flexible, well yes they should have kept the paywalls high (like the WSJ) and the probably should have sued the crap of folks (like Google and early versions of BBs) that appropriated their information wholesale.
I still don't understand the hating on the Dispatch and newspapers in general. What did they ever do to you?
To the question of decline. There is no golden age, but that also doesn't mean that there aren't trajectories - in terms of the quality of written material produced for a mass market on a daily basis. You simply couldn't beat large city dailies from the last quarter of the 19C through the beginning of the Great Depression (though really WWI killed a lot of fantastic papers - Cincinnati Commercial for instance). I would argue that the quality of written material produced today is for a shorter attention and at a lower quality than was case even 15 years ago. Our society has become increasingly fearful at targeting anything that isn't the lowest common denominator. American society used to have a greater weight on grasping upward, but since the 60s we have increasing seen the elites ape the bottom rungs of society. This is a classic marker of a society coming apart. Rome after 200 A.D. as one example.
To comment threads, don't read them.The paywall works for WSJ because it is practically a trade magazine, and most of those subscriptions are paid by employers and/or considered a business expense. Plus, WSJ's paywall was designed to allow access to articles that are linked from blogs. If that's the model that other newspapers should follow, I don't think that blogs are the problem here.
Having not read much in the way of pre-WWI newspapers (although I'd love to if you have some suggested starting points), I can't compare attention spans there, but outside of newspapers I see much more evidence of lengthened than shortened attention spans. The average best-selling novels run much longer than they used to, movies regularly top three hours, and I'd also point to the success of TV shows like Battlestar Galactica and Lost as a sign that attention spans are just fine.
Of course, coming from a background in poetry, I'd also make the argument that longer isn't always better. It's much easier to write well broadly than it is to write well concisely [he says, as this reply continues to expand].
Honestly, I think we're in the middle of a new golden age of writing. It might not be a golden age of profitable writing, but never in history have so many people written so much. Hell, just this thread is seven pages long- all writing. For all the fear about texting and abbreviated language (which is actually pretty fascinating) that's still a significant increase in daily writing and reading compared to five years ago. The problem today is learning to seperate signal from noise. But once you do that, there's so much awesome signal to be found out there.
Posted 1 year ago # -
michaelcoyote
!seabus
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dmerkow wrote >>
I don't doubt that Craigslist filled a useful gap, but it remains that classified advertising was the backbone of the industry. You say they should have been more flexible, well yes they should have kept the paywalls high (like the WSJ) and the probably should have sued the crap of folks (like Google and early versions of BBs) that appropriated their information wholesale.Even the WSJ has relaxed their paywalls since they instituted them years ago. At any rate, I'd probably not subscribe as their standards have been steadily slipping since Murdoch bought them and to be honest even before that. If I was going to pay for that kind of content I'd buy the Economist.
As far as Google appropriating content wholesale? I've never read news content off of a Google search ever. Some sites used to turn up in searches. Now they don't. Guess whose sites I visit even less now.
dmerkow wrote >>
I still don't understand the hating on the Dispatch and newspapers in general. What did they ever do to you?Don't take it too personally, The Dispatch is merely a convenient example of a newspaper that doesn't meet my needs or standards. There's some good information in there to be sure, but not really enough to subscribe.
Like Lisa I'd be more interested in some transparent form of micropayment, where I could just pay electronically for the content I'm interested in. During soccer season, I'd probably pay to read Sean Mitchell every day.
dmerkow wrote >> To the question of decline. There is no golden age, but that also doesn't mean that there aren't trajectories - in terms of the quality of written material produced for a mass market on a daily basis. You simply couldn't beat large city dailies from the last quarter of the 19C through the beginning of the Great Depression (though really WWI killed a lot of fantastic papers - Cincinnati Commercial for instance). I would argue that the quality of written material produced today is for a shorter attention and at a lower quality than was case even 15 years ago. Our society has become increasingly fearful at targeting anything that isn't the lowest common denominator.
I think we're in complete agreement here.
dmerkow wrote >> American society used to have a greater weight on grasping upward, but since the 60s we have increasing seen the elites ape the bottom rungs of society. This is a classic marker of a society coming apart. Rome after 200 A.D. as one example.
I've seen this theory proposed before, and in some ways it makes some sense, but on the other hand I like a good Carhart coat and a comfortable pair of jeans, and I don't see those a harbinger of doom.
I can only assume that you're referring narrowly to the intellectual aspirations of the upper class to immerse themselves in things like reality TV and the like. I'll agree that this is disconcerting and doesn't incline me to think well of my fellow Americans, but it's hardly the biggest problem we have.
dmerkow wrote >> To comment threads, don't read them.
And I don't, but I think you're wildly missing the point. A comment section can drive readership, and generates content. The cohort of people that appears to frequent the comment section at the Dispatch currently would limit your advertising in the comments section to KKK robe makers and bulk aluminum foil sales. Build a more open community and you might be able to make a destination site that is more attractive to advertisers.
my medium is dying wrote >>
What Aaron is trying to say, and rightfully so, is that We Brought You Into This World, ColumbusUnderground.
And we will take you out.I realize you're being glib, but CU was "brought into this world" by the same thing as the Dispatch.
Market Forces.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Aaron Marshall
Baja Clintonville
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Aaron Marshall
Baja Clintonville
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michaelcoyote
!seabus
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Aaron Marshall
Baja Clintonville
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michaelcoyote wrote >>
Aaron Marshall wrote >>
my medium is dying wrote >>
What Aaron is trying to say, and rightfully so, is that We Brought You Into This World, ColumbusUnderground.
And we will take you out.
xoxo,
teetAh, the calvary arrives.
the newspaper business is saved.
Just wait until Sean Mitchell gets here too! He's waiting for someone to score in the Crew game so he's going to be a little late...
Posted 1 year ago # -
michaelcoyote
!seabus
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Aaron Marshall wrote >>
Just wait until Sean Mitchell gets here too! He's waiting for someone to score in the Crew game so he's going to be a little late...
Unless Sean decides to open his own soccer site with a few other writers and just charge access for exclusive interviews and special content and totally bypass the newspaper model.
To be honest it seems more sustainable going forward to subscribe to the writers I like than a whole newspaper.
ETA: Probably a more reliable paycheck than this: http://overheardinthenewsroom.com/2010/02/17/3179/
Posted 1 year ago # -
Andrew Hall
Dennison Place (The Circles)
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I would pay for something, but it would have to go beyond what is currently offered.
The online edition is limited by the constraints of the print edition and that is pretty limited in value. With the exception of a few stories, most of the pieces are essentially cut-n-paste from press releases and (often-public) interviews. That works in the limits of print and is useful for a base understanding of an issue or event. It is also of very small value.
The online edition also continues in the paradigm where newspapers considered themselves authorities and could work in a single direction of broadcast (with the token LTEs.) That also doesn't work anymore.
I would pay for a site which had longer editions of the stories with the source materials like the interviews or press releases as well as researched links to relevant material. I would pay for stories where the reporter further engaged the readers in dialogue. (I think that would also produce comments that add value rather than are just shouts.) I would pay for two-part stories/interviews where the 1st part was used to solicit comment which then helped create the 2nd part. I would pay for the Dispatch to use the name value to get participatory interviews and discussions with news makers. In short, I would pay if the Dispatch stopped forcing the Internet to be limited by paper and went further.
I have no idea if there are enough people who would pay for this to make it viable.
A.
Posted 1 year ago # -
greenhouse1014
Columbus
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Aaron Marshall wrote >>
my medium is dying wrote >>
What Aaron is trying to say, and rightfully so, is that We Brought You Into This World, ColumbusUnderground.I'm just messing with you, Aaron.:)
And we will take you out.
xoxo,
teetAh, the calvary arrives.
Maybe newspapers aren't surviving because reporters can't spell so they change the entire meaning of the word. It's cavalry, not calvary. That's a mountain.
Posted 1 year ago # -
cc
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JonMyers wrote >>
I'm curious if CU journalist types have any thoughts or hopes on the iPad?A nice way for retired baby boomers in Florida to reconnect with their once local paper while hanging out by the shuffle board court. A possible source for online subscriptions but not the target demographic for most advertisers.
When competition increases I see ipad/kindle tablets replacing paper mass media for cost and speed of production/delivery reasons. The problems of current print institutions (revenue loss, dispersion of information sources) remain.
Posted 1 year ago # -
jackoh
The Village
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greenhouse1014 wrote >>
Aaron Marshall wrote >>
my medium is dying wrote >>
What Aaron is trying to say, and rightfully so, is that We Brought You Into This World, ColumbusUnderground.
I'm just messing with you, Aaron.:)
And we will take you out.
xoxo,
teetAh, the calvary arrives.
Maybe newspapers aren't surviving because reporters can't spell so they change the entire meaning of the word. It's cavalry, not calvary. That's a mountain.
No. That instance is a function of a submission going directly to print without seeing an editor first. A good editor would have caught that.
This is the one downside of the internet model of content delivery, especially the very interesting one suggested by Andrew Hall. Any real writer will tell you, though they hate to admit it, that an editor is essential to a finished piece. And this goes way beyond cleaning up typos and grammatical mistakes; it goes to the essence of shaping the story and making sure that the shape that the story takes is comprehensible.
ETA. It's not reporters that we will miss in the digital age without print media, it's editors!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Aaron Marshall
Baja Clintonville
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jackoh wrote >>
greenhouse1014 wrote >>
Aaron Marshall wrote >>
my medium is dying wrote >>
What Aaron is trying to say, and rightfully so, is that We Brought You Into This World, ColumbusUnderground.
I'm just messing with you, Aaron.:)
And we will take you out.
xoxo,
teetAh, the calvary arrives.
Maybe newspapers aren't surviving because reporters can't spell so they change the entire meaning of the word. It's cavalry, not calvary. That's a mountain.
No. That instance is a function of a submission going directly to print without seeing an editor first. A good editor would have caught that.
This is the one downside of the internet model of content delivery, especially the very interesting one suggested by Andrew Hall. Any real writer will tell you, though they hate to admit it, that an editor is essential to a finished piece. And this goes way beyond cleaning up typos and grammatical mistakes; it goes to the essence of shaping the story and making sure that the shape that the story takes is comprehensible.
ETA. It's not reporters that we will miss in the digital age without print media, it's editors!+1 for covering for my bad spelling.
Posted 1 year ago #
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