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rus said:
Truth. "Support unions no matter what" doesn't seem to have worked out well either for the union or the people served by COTA.
I will agree. It turned out to be a fiasco. A big cluster f_ _ k.
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Transportation
COTA Strike
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dodgchrgrs
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Posted 10 months ago # -
Mr Man
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Seems like some of the longtime posters here (Snarf and rus in particular) like to throw around words like "greed". Next time either one of you sits down for a performance review or salary negotiation, keep your own words in mind.
The sentiment seems to be that the union members should gladly take whatever management gives them, because surely management knows what's best for them, COTA, and the city of Columbus in general. Time well surely tell, but I'm always of the opinion that you only get that for which you fight.
I have to agree with Jon here - there is a strong undertone of butthurt floating through the comments. Some seem resentful of the collective bargaining ability, others seem resentful of the protected status of the jobs. Others would begrudge the union the value of their hard work because they only need a GED to get the job. That's a rather nasty sentiment and indication of the entitled feeling that I see with many of my "more educated" friends.
EDIT: typo
Posted 10 months ago # -
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Mr Man said:
Seems like some of the longtime posters here (Snarf and rus in particular) like to throw around words like "greed". Next time either one of you sits down for a performance review or salary negotiation, keep your own words in mind.The sentiment seems to be that the union members should gladly take whatever management gives them, because surely management knows what's best for them, COTA, and the city of Columbus in general. Time well surely tell, but I'm always of the opinion that you only get that for which you fight.
I have to agree with Jon here - there is a strong undertone of butthurt floating through the comments. Some seem resentful of the collective bargaining ability, others seem resentful of the protected status of the jobs. Others would begrudge the union the value of their hard work because they only need a GED to get the job. That's a rather nasty sentiment and indication of the entitled feeling that I see with many of my "more educated" friends.
EDIT: typo
Posted 10 months ago # -
rus
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Mr Man said:
The sentiment seems to be that the union members should gladly take whatever management gives them, because surely management knows what's best for them, COTA, and the city of Columbus in general. Time well surely tell, but I'm always of the opinion that you only get that for which you fight.
Seriously, how did the fight go?
Challenging management? Sure. Playing chicken with a strike and losing? Not so sure.
If you end up accepting the last deal management put out while also losing some pay from the strike and creating a PR nightmare that's not so much fighting as leading with the chin.
Posted 10 months ago # -
cheap
Westgate
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Mr Man said:
Others would begrudge the union the value of their hard work because they only need a GED to get the job. That's a rather nasty sentiment and indication of the entitled feeling that I see with many of my "more educated" friends.believe me,i see it as well.
but,i think the crux of all the angst over this strike is because the strikers' job provided a service to people that needed the service to make a living.
i really doubt if the uproar would have been as strong if the trash guys were striking.
as for me,i think the riders and the drivers are both sitting pretty well,and should just STFU & move on.
shit,riders have it made in the shade.
a bus rider pays $4 for a ride to work & back.4 lousy bucks.that is a sweet deal,no matter how you look at it.a 30 day pass is even cheaper.
riders should be glad COTA doesn't add another buck on the fare after this fiasco.
as for the drivers,they have a union that is run by the same people running COTA,a bunch of bureaucrats with their head up their ass.
but without the union they wouldn't be making $14 an hour with health insurance and pension.
Posted 10 months ago # -
JonMyers
HCMC, Vietnam ✈
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I would imagine the majority of COTA drivers have families.
I'm not sure how the total compensation package stacks up, but $14/ hour doesn't sound like a lot of money. Working full-time, after taxes, withholdings, and paying the union thugs protection money that's about $1250/ month?
Is that right? Or is my back of the napkin math way off?
People do it, and make it work, my family did, but it seems like it would be extremely difficult to support a family on that amount these days.
It's not like they're getting rich, and if anything the compensation is probably low given the value, benefits and service being provided to the community.
Posted 10 months ago # -
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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JonMyers said:
I would imagine the majority of COTA drivers have families.I'm not sure how the total compensation package stacks up, but $14/ hour doesn't sound like a lot of money. Working full-time, after taxes, withholdings, and paying the union thugs protection money that's about $1250/ month?
Is that right? Or is my back of the napkin math way off?
People do it, and make it work, my family did, but it seems like it would be extremely difficult to support a family on that amount these days.
It's not like they're getting rich, and if anything the compensation is probably low given the value, benefits and service being provided to the community.
I did the math several times in this thread. People seemed more interested in either cherry picking, like comparing COTA pay to CABS FT pay (even though there was nothing to compare: time in service and so on) or lumping OPERs/Health benefits into total compensation.
Posted 10 months ago # -
Snarf
Dystopia
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Mr Man said:
1. Seems like some of the longtime posters here (Snarf and rus in particular) like to throw around words like "greed". Next time either one of you sits down for a performance review or salary negotiation, keep your own words in mind.2. The sentiment seems to be that the union members should gladly take whatever management gives them, because surely management knows what's best for them, COTA, and the city of Columbus in general. Time well surely tell, but I'm always of the opinion that you only get that for which you fight.
3. I have to agree with Jon here - there is a strong undertone of butthurt floating through the comments. Some seem resentful of the collective bargaining ability, others seem resentful of the protected status of the jobs. Others would begrudge the union the value of their hard work because they only need a GED to get the job. That's a rather nasty sentiment and indication of the entitled feeling that I see with many of my "more educated" friends.
EDIT: typo
1. I work for myself, so I'll definitely keep that in mind.
2. If this strike was their "fight" they failed miserably.
3. I'm just resentful that they fucked over thousands of people who should be able to rely on them.
Posted 10 months ago # -
rus
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lifeontwowheels said:
I did the math several times in this thread. People seemed more interested in either cherry picking, like comparing COTA pay to CABS FT pay (even though there was nothing to compare: time in service and so on) or lumping OPERs/Health benefits into total compensation.You wanted to show, apparently, that COTA drivers were underpaid. The math, including from the link you posted that you didn't expect anyone to read, shows that COTA drivers make more than comparable drivers in other agencies.
That's not arguable.
Focusing on the lowest starting salary is an interesting tactic, though. That allows you to avoid discussion of the highest salaries ( $92K ) and pretend that everyone is stuck on the lowest rung.
It looks like the union got the best deal possible before the strike and gambled they could get more. They lost, not only the chance to gain more compensation but a lot of public support.
Posted 10 months ago # -
DavidF
Elysium Fields
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As a former union negotiator, and ardent union supporter, I feel compelled to say that this was a massive PR failure on the part of the union. It's clear that the leadership of the union did not want this strike and it was forced on them by members who did not vote for the agreement. The failure on the part of the union to shape the narrative of what was happening was also epic.
Back in the day, I spent months of planning before negotiations ever started preparing our package and doing extensive media and negotiation training for the members (and these were open to everyone, not just the negotiating team). I also made sure we knew to a person where everyone stood on the final outcome before we had a vote. It is also why I would never agree to a media blackout during negotiations(as is overwhelmingly common practice). I always believed that being publicly accountable kept both sides more honest and measured in their negotiating positions. We always had weekly update meetings with the membership to outline where we were in the process. This had the positive effect of helping everyone to feel involved in the process, not just the leadership elite.
As divided as the membership was on this vote, I would have fought hard to get at least another few days extension in order to work to solidify the members one way or the other. My guess (especially based on COTA refusal to meet until Sunday)is COTA management knew they were divided and refused to give them any further extensions. Unfortunately for them, while this made the union look bad, I agree with previous posters that in the eyes of the general public, that simply translates into making COTA as a whole look bad. So management wins the contract negotiations at the cost of a massive public backlash at them. This is what happens when one or both sides lose sight of the larger picture and become overly focused on which side gets to claim they "win."
Massive failure on both sides and a lesson for both management and unions on how not to do things.
Posted 10 months ago # -
News
Columbus Underground
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COTA strike had been brewing since 2005
By Robert Vitale
The Columbus Dispatch
Sunday July 8, 2012 10:52 AMWhen W. Curtis Stitt took over as head of the Central Ohio Transit Authority, he was praised by union President Andrew Jordan as someone with whom employees could work. Five months later, buses were parked, passengers were without a ride, and more than 600 COTA drivers, mechanics and maintenance workers were on strike.
READ MORE: http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/07/08/cota-strike-had-been-brewing-since-2005.htmlPosted 10 months ago # -
ATOC
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You all keep forgetting, 1 driver made 92K in a year. He's has been there forever & a day, stays on the extra board (gives you more hours, no regular route), works his days off. They told us about him in training, he slept in the quiet room a lot of nights & might as well had his mail delivered to COTA instead of his house. That was the person's words that interviewed me, not mine.
As far as this being a massive FUBAR on the unions part, I'd be inclined to agree with that, not too impressed with what Ive seen in that department the short time I've been there.
JMO.
EDIT: I forgot to add, I have not had any customers complain. Many said that they're glad we are back & a few told me that they don't blame us & hope we got what we were after. All I tell them is thank you & a big thank you for coming back to us. Even random people when they see me in uniform say the same. A few police officers as well. They say that they wished they could strike like we did....
Only people Ive seen mad is in this thread, admitted non riders......
Posted 10 months ago # -
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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rus said:
You wanted to show, apparently, that COTA drivers were underpaid. The math, including from the link you posted that you didn't expect anyone to read, shows that COTA drivers make more than comparable drivers in other agencies.That's not arguable.
Focusing on the lowest starting salary is an interesting tactic, though. That allows you to avoid discussion of the highest salaries ( $92K ) and pretend that everyone is stuck on the lowest rung.
It looks like the union got the best deal possible before the strike and gambled they could get more. They lost, not only the chance to gain more compensation but a lot of public support.
If you go back and look, I actually used the 5 year mark. My point was never to show they were underpaid, only that the salaries were actually pretty comparable. Especially when you factor in that more than likely they have very similar benefits.
Posted 10 months ago # -
rus
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dodgchrgrs
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rus said:
You wanted to show, apparently, that COTA drivers were underpaid. The math, including from the link you posted that you didn't expect anyone to read, shows that COTA drivers make more than comparable drivers in other agencies.That's not arguable.
Focusing on the lowest starting salary is an interesting tactic, though. That allows you to avoid discussion of the highest salaries ( $92K ) and pretend that everyone is stuck on the lowest rung.
It looks like the union got the best deal possible before the strike and gambled they could get more. They lost, not only the chance to gain more compensation but a lot of public support.
You would be wrong on the support part. We was highly supported by riders before we went on strike and still greeted very well when we got back on. I never heard one negative thing. You must think the bus riders are uneducated and oblivious to what is going on. They heard all the bragging that COTA does about their financial situation and they see all the daily verbal and physical abuse we take. Most of the people said Go Get Yours. Hell one passenger said how does it feel to work for "crooks". We dont get paid as high as we do cause of our driving skills or education it took to get the job. Ive always said that driving a bus is easy. Easier than driving a car in my personal view. We get paid for the good job we do and stress of the job. Most jobs dont have to deal with the mulititudes that we have to deal with. Most folks are nice. Some are on medication. Some are bad and mean people etc etc. They are right in our face. No protection, no nothing. All we can do is press a button.....half hour later...if we are lucky....help shows. That is what we get paid for. Most transit agencies this size have transit police. We dont. The response time of our supervisors is pitiful at best. Do i think the strike was a fiasco.....yes sir. Shouldnt have happened and lasted longer than it should have. Both sides are at fault for that. As for that 91,000 comment. Do you realize how many hours that joker had to put in to get that pay....he/she pratically lived at COTA for that pay. The base salary for a top tier driver is 50000. Then whatever overtime he/she does. COTA wants to do away with overtime....which is their right. If they ever do, then maybe you can get what we get paid right for once.
Posted 10 months ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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dodgchrgrs said:
You would be wrong on the support part. We was highly supported by riders before we went on strike and still greeted very well when we got back on. I never heard one negative thing.I wasn't a big fan of the strike. I'm pretty much a daily rider. But I didn't say anything about it to any drivers after service resumed, because I'm not going to be an ass to someone I don't know.
I think it's a stretch to say that anecdotal silence from riders in the past few days = high levels of support for the strike.
Posted 10 months ago # -
rus
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Walker said:
I wasn't a big fan of the strike. I'm pretty much a daily rider. But I didn't say anything about it to any drivers after service resumed, because I'm not going to be an ass to someone I don't know.I think it's a stretch to say that anecdotal silence from riders in the past few days = high levels of support for the strike.
+1
Posted 10 months ago # -
DTown
Discovery District South
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Walker said:
I wasn't a big fan of the strike. I'm pretty much a daily rider. But I didn't say anything about it to any drivers after service resumed, because I'm not going to be an ass to someone I don't know.I think it's a stretch to say that anecdotal silence from riders in the past few days = high levels of support for the strike.
And let's not forget that those who ride the bus make up a tiny percentage of the voters who will decide whether to extend the tax support that COTA receives today.
I, for one, hope that COTA will continue to do well and be supported by the voters whether they ride or not. But, I worry that most people who don't depend on the service, or see it as vital to the city, won't soon forget the attitudes exposed during the strike.
When your livelihood depends upon the wallets of others, you'd best be damn sure you're in the right before you make demands for more. I'm not sure most people involved thought much beyond their own self-interest. Hopefully it won't come back to bite anyone.
Posted 10 months ago #
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