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rus said:
Where did you see that?
From here (4th paragraph):
http://www.columbusunderground.com/cota-strike-continues-no-bus-service-for-red-white-boom
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Transportation
COTA Strike
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rus
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Walker said:
Weird. When there's a thread where there's support being shown for bike lanes or rail transit you're quick to dismiss it as an insignificant minority in terms of the larger public opinion.Go figure.
Oh, sure. Sample size and all, but outside of CU bike lanes are something someone else uses, if anyone. Light rail usually means "streetcar" outside of CU, which if anyone talked about it at all was as a bad joke.
But then CU is it's own little microcosm. Seeing a lack of support for a union here is very interesting.
Posted 10 months ago # -
gramarye
In Exile
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NerosNeptune said:
I voted against Kasich and against SB5 and I'm feeling pretty stupid for it now. It's too bad COTA can't be scrapped and start up a union-less transit organization.Can it really not be, or would it simply be politically difficult?
On a related note, I'm surprised that Kasich and the Ohio GOP aren't showcasing this statewide more than they have been. COTA's union has given them a PR gift that they seem surprisingly hesitant to capitalize on so far, which leads me to believe that there may be more to this than we've seen so far publicly. Otherwise, this is the kind of thing that could provide serious political capital for another aggressive attempt to curb the power of public unions to hold taxpayer-funded budgets hostage and inflict harm on the public to gain leverage over their employers. The GOP lost the last round convincingly, so they may simply have no appetite to gear up for another round so soon--but even if they aren't really gearing up for another actual statewide fight so soon, they ought to be recognizing opportunities to highlight just what powerful and excessively entitled public unions can actually do under the current law.
Striking even with a new sweetheart deal, booing people who are assisting the disabled.. COTA drivers are acting disgracefully and I will not support them in the future.
As with many PR battles, the people who have the most opportunity to damage a cause are the cause's supporters, not its opponents. This applies to both conservative and liberal causes. (This may even be part of the explanation for my previous thoughts above--COTA is doing a pretty good job making itself look bad without the Ohio GOP getting involved and risking distracting some attention or engendering sympathy from people who are frustrated by this strike but who aren't necessarily Republicans or Republican-leaning independents.)
Posted 10 months ago # -
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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rus said:
Don't know about saving face; right now, between here and comments on FB and other sites it looks like the union is coming off very badly.If anything, I'd guess there's public support for firing the strikers outright.
I'm looking at future levies. Lots of strong opinion around punishing COTA through the balllot. I can see restoring service at some level with scabs quickly could save face and play well to public opinion.
Posted 10 months ago # -
rus
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gramarye said:
(This may even be part of the explanation for my previous thoughts above--COTA is doing a pretty good job making itself look bad without the Ohio GOP getting involved and risking distracting some attention or engendering sympathy from people who are frustrated by this strike but who aren't necessarily Republicans or Republican-leaning independents.)When someone is busy kicking their own ass, you stand back and let 'em.
Posted 10 months ago # -
gramarye
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The Peoples Champion said:
If it becomes a Right to Work state, we'll end up like Virginia and those other crappy right to work States down South. I like the cost of living like it is now.Have you ever lived in Virginia? I didn't think it was that bad. Of course, I also never even bothered to learn if it's a right-to-work state. I assume it is, just based on the longstanding politics of the area--it's only recently that the state has become more purple, primarily because of spillover from deep-blue D.C. However, that D.C. spillover is another reason why I wouldn't necessarily use it as an example of a right-to-work or pro-union state. Even if it's right to work, unionized federal government employees make up a solid part of the growth of the state in the north.
Posted 10 months ago # -
The Peoples Champion
The Legion of Doom
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I'd give up on the light rail. It's great to have though. Not enough population density, Columbus it too spread out and car crazy. Maybe a line from D'Town to Delaware, catering to that 800 lbs gorilla called OSU.
COTA would be in charge of light rail, and look at the fine job they are doing at the present time. The Gov't won't give them the funds until we can prove it would be worth it. And the taxpayers..... The taxpayers will show their displeasure every time COTA asks for a levy for at a couple of years..
Posted 10 months ago # -
The Peoples Champion
The Legion of Doom
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gramarye said:
Have you ever lived in Virginia? I didn't think it was that bad. Of course, I also never even bothered to learn if it's a right-to-work state. I assume it is, just based on the longstanding politics of the area--it's only recently that the state has become more purple, primarily because of spillover from deep-blue D.C. However, that D.C. spillover is another reason why I wouldn't necessarily use it as an example of a right-to-work or pro-union state. Even if it's right to work, unionized federal government employees make up a solid part of the growth of the state in the north.Outside of DC, the standard of living is not even close to Columbus. Besides, most southern states aren't "Labor friendly". Once Oklahoma went right to work, paychecks and lifestyle dipped.
Posted 10 months ago # -
The Peoples Champion
The Legion of Doom
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rus said:
Offtopic, but have a cite for that?Posted 10 months ago # -
gramarye
In Exile
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rus said:
Scabs? Given this thread, looks like there would be a lot of public support for that.Actually, I think that, win or lose, an attempt by management to do that would be productive and clarifying. This hearkens back to the skilled vs. unskilled debate earlier in the thread, at least in part. How feasible would it actually be to bring in enough temporary workers to restore service? Or to partially restore service, for that matter? There were some who are saying that there is no way that that could be done without "significant" training, implying weeks or even months to get service back online. Others were implying that there might be a pool of people out there with the proper credentials willing to work for less than the current unionized wages. In either case, the attempt would bring clarity to the situation--if management simply cannot find sufficient replacement workers, then that suggests that the union's demands are actually not unreasonable for the value that they bring to the table. If there really are plenty of qualified prospective employees out there, though, then management is fully within its rights to bring them on temporarily (and perhaps fire all the old employees and keep the temporary ones on a more permanent basis).
Of course, practical considerations may not leave enough time or money for such an experiment--and there definitely is the specter of union violence lurking in the background, though I would hope that that would not be the deciding factor against a temporary worker program.
More likely, however, the new board meeting is about a new settlement proposal that will get the existing union employees back on the job. It may not be about a final proposal, depending on how far back towards the drawing board they had to go after the union rejected Sunday's proposal. However, it might be. I consider that more likely than a temporary worker program at this point, because if management were serious about that as a strategy, they'd have begun moves to implement that the moment the union filed their 10-day notice.
Posted 10 months ago # -
rus
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The Peoples Champion said:
Right to Work in OK didn't create jobsThanks... separate topic, so any comments would be in a separate thread.
Posted 10 months ago # -
rus
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gramarye said:
More likely, however, the new board meeting is about a new settlement proposal that will get the existing union employees back on the job. It may not be about a final proposal, depending on how far back towards the drawing board they had to go after the union rejected Sunday's proposal. However, it might be. I consider that more likely than a temporary worker program at this point, because if management were serious about that as a strategy, they'd have begun moves to implement that the moment the union filed their 10-day notice.
That's a good point. If there was a move to replace strikers, you'd think they'd take action when the strike notice was filed if only preliminary steps.
Posted 10 months ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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The Peoples Champion said:
I'd give up on the light rail. It's great to have though. Not enough population density, Columbus it too spread out and car crazy.Columbus Population Density: 3,556 sq/mi
US Cities with Light Rail and similar density or lower density:
Denver: 3,874 sq/mi
Houston: 3,623 sq/mi
Dallas: 3,518 sq/mi
Phoenix: 3,071 sq/mi
Charlotte: 2,457 sq/mi
Norfolk: 1,684 sq/mi
Salt Lake City: 1,666 sq/miIf Columbus is "car crazy" then Houston is "car batshit insane".
Posted 10 months ago # -
DTown
Discovery District South
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rus said:
That's a good point. If there was a move to replace strikers, you'd think they'd take action when the strike notice was filed if only preliminary steps.I'm curious to understand why the rank & file rejected a settlement that the brass approved? What sort of disconnect does that show between the members and the union? Do the negotiators even know what the drivers and maintenance workers want? Sort of makes it hard to negotiate if you don't know what you're fighting for.
Posted 10 months ago # -
local champion
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As a weekly Cota rider I would love temporary workers, and actually think it would be much better if the temporary workers completely replaced the union workers.
Posted 10 months ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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The Peoples Champion said:
COTA would be in charge of light rail, and look at the fine job they are doing at the present time.rus said:
+1Meh. COTA's made a lot of improvements in the past 5 years, adding and expanding service. I wouldn't discount their potential ability to run a light rail system in the long term with a hyper-narrow focus on 2 days worth of a union strike. That's a bit extreme and short sighted.
Posted 10 months ago # -
The Peoples Champion
The Legion of Doom
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Walker said:
Columbus Population Density: 3,556 sq/miUS Cities with Light Rail and similar density or lower density:
Denver: 3,874 sq/mi
Houston: 3,623 sq/mi
Dallas: 3,518 sq/mi
Phoenix: 3,071 sq/mi
Charlotte: 2,457 sq/mi
Norfolk: 1,684 sq/mi
Salt Lake City: 1,666 sq/miIf Columbus is "car crazy" then Houston is "car batshit insane".
The ridership in those cities are 4x at least, that of COTAs. Pittsburgh has a daily ridership of 240k on their transit, and they have light rail and a bigger metro area than Columbus. How can anyone in this city justify a light rail line when COTA can only maintain a daily ridership of 60k??
Posted 10 months ago #
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