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Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords

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Started 1 year ago by KSquared
Latest reply from Walker

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Core_Models
Columbus
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I'm not going to get into a whole debate on Manson and if he was a conservative, but I think its interesting that apparently the idea of a race war is strictly a conservative value to you.

Here is the testimony that your quote is pulled from:

"The karma would have completely reversed, meaning that the black men would be on top and the white race would be wiped out; there would be none except for the Family."

"Except for Manson and the Family?"

"Yes."

"Did he say what the black man would do once he was all by himself?"

"Well, according to Charlie, he would clean up the mess, just like he always has done. He is supposed to be the servant, see. He will clean up the mess that he made, that the white man made, and build the world back up a little bit, build the cities back up, but then he wouldn't know what to do with it, he couldn't handle it."

Posted 1 year ago #
cc

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My point is that the Manson family were not 'liberal' shooters as you suggested. That post surprised me. I never said they were conservatives.

Posted 1 year ago #
Core_Models
Columbus
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cc wrote >>
My point is that the Manson family were not 'liberal' shooters as you suggested. That post surprised me. I never said they were conservatives.

Again, they're self described hippies basing their actions on a Beatles song, leaving their commune in the desert to commit violence in order to force the white man to pay for their karma. I would say they are about as liberal as they come. If your point is they aren't liberal because they're racist, again, I'd question your assignment of racism to being a conservative value.

Posted 1 year ago #
cc

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They are saying the the Congresswoman is talking. Which seems incredible considering she was shot through the forehead. I wish her and her family well.

Posted 1 year ago #
catnfiddle
Giant Corncob District
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Meanwhile, Westboro Baptist Church has made their usual announcement of praise for the shooter as well as of their intent to picket the funerals of all victims.

Posted 1 year ago #
rus

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Core_Models wrote >>

cc wrote >>
My point is that the Manson family were not 'liberal' shooters as you suggested. That post surprised me. I never said they were conservatives.

Again, they're self described hippies basing their actions on a Beatles song, leaving their commune in the desert to commit violence in order to force the white man to pay for their karma. I would say they are about as liberal as they come. If your point is they aren't liberal because they're racist, again, I'd question your assignment of racism to being a conservative value.

Well said.

Since when do nutjobs only come from the OTHER team?

Posted 1 year ago #
Bear
The woods
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The weird paradox of political assassinations is that, while they are by definition political (because the target was only a target because of his or her involvement in politics), the shooter's motives are often apolitical, or at least unrelated to the politics of the target. James Fallows wrote about this point here. In short, we can't tell much about politics by analyzing Squeaky Fromme. This guy may be no different.

That's not to say that Republicans like Palin who tossed around gun rhetoric all over the place don't look like serious asshats. And I have a hard time feeling sorry for them. The guy would have had a hell of a time killing all those people with a baseball bat.

Posted 1 year ago #
rus

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Bear wrote >>
The guy would have had a hell of a time killing all those people with a baseball bat.

He'd probably use a truck and a knife instead, then.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25026870/

Posted 1 year ago #
rus

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Core_Models wrote >>
So much for the lone wolf...
http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-hunt-person-connection-arizona-assassination-attempt-rep/story?id=12574682

Police are on the hunt for a second man who may have been involved in the assassination attempt on Rep. Gabrielle Giffords at a Tucson, Ariz., grocery store yesterday that left six people dead and 13 critically injured.

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20110108/D9KKF2L80.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - Officials familiar with the investigation into a shooting rampage in Arizona say the suspect claims he acted alone.

At least five people were killed and Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was shot in the head in the episode, which unfolded as the Democratic congresswoman was greeting constituents in her district in Tucson, Arizona.

Police say the shooter is in custody. He has been identified by officials familiar with the investigation as Jared Loughner, 22.

Officials say Loughner told authorities at the scene he had acted alone, although it is not certain that is the case.

Posted 1 year ago #
Core_Models
Columbus
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Update at 1:19 p.m. ET: Mueller said there is a search for a "person of interest." There is a photo of an individual who was in the grocery at the time of the shooting.

That's from FBI Director Mueller about an hour ago.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/01/gabrielle-giffords-shooting-sheriff/1

Posted 1 year ago #
Twixlen
Westgate, Columbus
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Bear wrote >>
The weird paradox of political assassinations is that, while they are by definition political (because the target was only a target because of his or her involvement in politics), the shooter's motives are often apolitical, or at least unrelated to the politics of the target. James Fallows wrote about this point here. In short, we can't tell much about politics by analyzing Squeaky Fromme. This guy may be no different.
That's not to say that Republicans like Palin who tossed around gun rhetoric all over the place don't look like serious asshats. And I have a hard time feeling sorry for them. The guy would have had a hell of a time killing all those people with a baseball bat.

There's a great blog post from George Packer in the New Yorker today. It expands on this same thinking in a way I really appreciate -

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/georgepacker/2011/01/judging-from-his-internet-postings.html#ixzz1AYpAOefX

"This relentlessly hostile rhetoric has become standard issue on the right. (On the left it appears in anonymous comment threads, not congressional speeches and national T.V. programs.) And it has gone almost entirely uncriticized by Republican leaders. Partisan media encourages it, while the mainstream media finds it titillating and airs it, often without comment, so that the gradual effect is to desensitize even people to whom the rhetoric is repellent. WeÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve all grown so used to it over the past couple of years that it took the shock of an assassination attempt to show us the ugliness to which our politics has sunk.
The massacre in Tucson is, in a sense, irrelevant to the important point. Whatever drove Jared Lee Loughner, America's political frequencies are full of violent static."

Posted 1 year ago #
tourist19
Merion Village
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catnfiddle wrote >>
Meanwhile, Westboro Baptist Church has made their usual announcement of praise for the shooter as well as of their intent to picket the funerals of all victims.

Those people make me sick. Picketing the funeral of a 9 year old child, really???? I wish the media would make a pact that NONE of the them would film them or talk to them at the funerals. Don't give them the publicity they are craving, take away their platform.

Posted 1 year ago #
rus

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Core_Models wrote >>

Update at 1:19 p.m. ET: Mueller said there is a search for a "person of interest." There is a photo of an individual who was in the grocery at the time of the shooting.

That's from FBI Director Mueller about an hour ago.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/01/gabrielle-giffords-shooting-sheriff/1

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110109/D9KL1I101.html

TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) - Arizona authorities say a second man has been cleared of any involvement in an attempted assassination of U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson.

Pima County Sheriff's Deputy Jason Ogan said Sunday that the man was a cab driver who drove the gunman to the grocery store outside of which the shooting occurred.

Ogan says the man went into the store because the gunman apparently hadn't paid his fare.

Authorities had been seeking the man as a suspected accomplice because he was captured on security cameras near the gunman and at the scene Saturday.

Ogan says the cab driver "came by, and we talked to him and we determined he was not involved."

He also says authorities were not ready to say if they are confident the gunman acted alone.

Posted 1 year ago #
SusanB
Hungarian Village, Columbus' fastest growing Gayborhood!
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More on the politics of Jared Loughner, via a leaked Department of Homeland Security memo obtained by FOX News:

Strong suspicion is being directed at AmRen / American Renaissance. Suspect is possibly linked to this group. (through videos posted on his myspace and YouTube account.). The groupÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s ideology is anti government, anti immigration, anti ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti Semitic. Gabrielle Gifford is the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government. She was also opposite this groupÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s ideology when it came to immigration debate.

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/news/

Posted 1 year ago #
Bear
The woods
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rus wrote >>

Bear wrote >>
The guy would have had a hell of a time killing all those people with a baseball bat.

He'd probably use a truck and a knife instead, then.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25026870/

Because that's less trouble than walking into a store, passing the FBI background check, and buying a handgun? Even when you've got a criminal record?

Posted 1 year ago #
Core_Models
Columbus
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In all fairness, I don't think any state forbids gun ownership with a nonviolent misdemeanor record (nor do I think they should). My biggest gun law related issue with this story is the 30 round magazine. The magazine capacity limitations at a Federal level left with Clinton, and seems like one of those no-brainer limitations to me.

Posted 1 year ago #
rus

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Core_Models wrote >>
In all fairness, I don't think any state forbids gun ownership with a nonviolent misdemeanor record (nor do I think they should).

Well, that and that the problem isn't the tool, it's the crazy. Just pointing out that even in a society with incredibly stringent firearm restrictions, there can still be mass murder.

Hell, what truck requires a background check? How about a knife? And the spree killer in Japan killed more people with out a gun that this nutjob did with one.

The real problem seems to be mental illness. That's apparently part of why he got kicked out of college, so it's not as if he was unknown to have such problems.

Posted 1 year ago #
achoo

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Thanks for the great replies involving a LIBERAL shooter. I did however specifically exclude crazies, groups and ulteriorly motivated shootings, so the Manson family (ulterior motive/groupthink/and ummm...crazy) and Kaczincki (he was more against technology making us less civil than politically narrow towards one party) are excluded.

Core_Models: I did not mean philosophically liberal (ex. pot-smoking, open-marriage, etc.) that is a misconstrued as being liberal. Based on your definition, Rush Limbaugh would be a liberal because of his "live-and-let-live" use of painkillers. He leans conservative. I mean a politically, leaning-left liberal.

Think "policy" not "pot" to define liberal. Although a philosophically liberal pot-head may vote democratic 99% (if he even votes), it does not necessarily mean he is politically liberal.

I very specifically meant someone who sort of "snaps" like they've had enough of conservative government policies. I can't seem to think of any give-peace-a-chance!-leftist shooters (although I am sure theres gotta be one).

Posted 1 year ago #
SusanB
Hungarian Village, Columbus' fastest growing Gayborhood!
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There have certainly been left wing violent groups, the SLA and the Weather Underground come to mind immediately. These groups (as well as the Bader-Meinhof Gang in Europe) are all from the 60's and 70's. Maybe these crazies come in waves and now is the season of right wing neonazi wackjobs a la Tim McVey.

Posted 1 year ago #
Core_Models
Columbus
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OK...now tell me the politically conservative shooters (excluding crazies, groups, and ulteriorly motivated shootings, as you've said).

Posted 1 year ago #