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Competition, Good or Bad?

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Started 11 months ago by ChrisSunami
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ChrisSunami
King-Lincoln District
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I was talking recently to an older artist I really respect, trying to sell her on the idea of the Columbus Invitational Arts Competition. She really liked the concept of bringing together a wide range of grassroots, community-oriented arts organizations, but she was utterly opposed to framing it as a competition.

I was basically raised by the flower-child generation, so I've very familiar with the "competition=evil" paradigm, but I can't say I've ever bought into it. Competition can be taken too far, and it can overshadow the pure joy of a given activity, but I don't see those as necessary consequences.

In my opinion, competition, properly understood, is a form of collaboration. You and your rivals help inspire each other to do your absolute best. Competition encourages excellence, which in my book is a good thing. And competition can also be an avenue in for the audience --it gives them a narrative, and a sense of investment in the outcome.

At any rate, it's pretty clear where I stand --what about you? Do you think competition and competitiveness is a good thing or a bad thing?

Posted 11 months ago #
Porky
C-Bus' East Side
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I have to agree with you Chris, I think competition brings out the best in us.

Posted 11 months ago #
misskitty
Columbus
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Is it a competition between creative groups or Artists? Can an individual Artist join or do they have to be within the listed participating groups?

Posted 11 months ago #
ChrisSunami
King-Lincoln District
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misskitty said:
Is it a competition between creative groups or Artists? Can an individual Artist join or do they have to be within the listed participating groups?

This particular competition is for organizations, although in many cases they will be represented by individual artists. However, most of the groups have open membership, so an individual artist who was really motivated to be in the competition could probably get in it that way.

Philosophically, the reason for focusing on groups is because one group can support, develop and mentor a large number of artists, and thus arguably has more of an impact on the community than a given individual. In practical terms, focusing on groups greatly expands the number of people directly connected with the event.

Porky said:
I have to agree with you Chris, I think competition brings out the best in us.

I definitely think so, but it's a topic that makes a lot of people uneasy in the arts. In athletics, we expect competition as a matter of course, and in some areas of art --classical music, for instance --competition is common. But many artists feel that competition detracts from what they are doing.

Posted 11 months ago #
alexs
Limestone bluffs of the Scioto
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Yes competition can bring out the best, but it's one thing when there's some score or other measurable, but another when it's a matter of preference - de gustibus non est disputandum - visual arts competitions are like chili or BBQ cook-offs where it comes down to what someone does or does not like.

Posted 11 months ago #
Porky
C-Bus' East Side
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Chris I'm a little older than you, not by much :-), but I clearly remember when I played little league sports we had winners and losers. And I did'nt want to be a loser so I tried harder to not be on the short end. But nowadays when I go to my nephews games they don't even keep score, it's a different sport, he plays soccer but it's the same principle.

Have you ever noticed how inherently competitive kids are? My nephew wants to race me and compete in EVERYTHING, "race you up the stairs, race you to finish _____ food first", etc. but the adults in his life have taught him that competition is not good. I see it with the schools more than anything, they seem to want equalized outcomes.

I think we are doing our youngsters a disservice by not encouraging competition. One day they will be competing for everything, scholarships, jobs, promotions and I think by teaching them that "everybody's a winner" they lose the competitive advantage.

Posted 11 months ago #
Snarf
Dystopia
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Porky said:
I think we are doing our youngsters a disservice by not encouraging competition. One day they will be competing for everything, scholarships, jobs, promotions and I think by teaching them that "everybody's a winner" they lose the competitive advantage.

+1

Posted 11 months ago #
LBDD

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+2

And by teaching that "everybody's a winner," you're essentially lying to them. In the real world, there are winners and losers in everything. Take it from me, I've been on the losing end more times than not. But, I've also learned lessons and moved on.

Posted 11 months ago #
misskitty
Columbus
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Competition is a good thing it is what pushes people to produce better work sometimes. Other times it just depends on the overall situation.

This particular competition is for organizations, although in many cases they will be represented by individual artists. However, most of the groups have open membership, so an individual artist who was really motivated to be in the competition could probably get in it that way.

I am not a member of any groups around town. Although I have quite a few artist friends that tried and failed at joining Columbus art group’s and collectives. They usually site having no space or are not looking for new members, which is usually the reason for the rejection.

However, none of it really matters anyway just have a competition and if someone is really that worried about hurting people and their inner self with the idea of competitiveness oh well.

Posted 11 months ago #
ChrisSunami
King-Lincoln District
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alexs said:
Yes competition can bring out the best, but it's one thing when there's some score or other measurable, but another when it's a matter of preference - de gustibus non est disputandum - visual arts competitions are like chili or BBQ cook-offs where it comes down to what someone does or does not like.

It's true that a competition is only as good as its judging. I used to be an "American Idol" fan, but the tastes of the judges and the voting public really tended towards the bland and the predictable in a way that became increasingly hard to watch. On the other hand, the judging on rival reality show "The Sing Off" was so good that I think it noticeably improved the caliber of the whole genre.

For our competition, we're using a panel of judges drawn from the participating organizations themselves (they will judge each other's entries, not their own). They will be asked to give each group a 1-10 score in three areas: Technique (how skilled is the artist), Challenge (how challenging is the artwork), and Integrity (how successfully does the final artwork present as an integral whole). Those scores will be averaged within each area, and the composites multiplied together for a final numeric score between 1 and 1000.

There's still room for argument whether it's legitimate to quantify art this way at all, but I think this rubric gives a fair way to compare and contrast artworks of contrasting genres and styles.

Porky said:
Chris I'm a little older than you, not by much :-), but I clearly remember when I played little league sports we had winners and losers. And I did'nt want to be a loser so I tried harder to not be on the short end. But nowadays when I go to my nephews games they don't even keep score, it's a different sport, he plays soccer but it's the same principle.

I do think there can be a lot of value to cooperative games, --I'm not a fan of the "winning is everything" mindset. But anything can be negative when taken to an extreme --competition OR non-competition.

misskitty said:
I am not a member of any groups around town. Although I have quite a few artist friends that tried and failed at joining Columbus art group’s and collectives. They usually site having no space or are not looking for new members, which is usually the reason for the rejection.

I know that "Creative Arts of Women" is open to any local female artist, and is always seeking new members. It's a great group too --co-founder Stephanie Rond is someone I've come to deeply respect in a short period of time.

I'm not sure there's an exact equivalent for men or for both genders, but it seems like new groups are forming all the time --Cap City Creatives, pARTy Columbus, etc., etc. True, the older, more established groups might be less open to new members, but the energy seems to be more with the newer groups anyway. And you could always get together and form your own...

Posted 11 months ago #
misskitty
Columbus
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misskitty said:
I am not a member of any groups around town. Although I have quite a few artist friends that tried and failed at joining Columbus art group’s and collectives. They usually site having no space or are not looking for new members, which is usually the reason for the rejection.
I know that "Creative Arts of Women" is open to any local female artist, and is always seeking new members. It's a great group too --co-founder Stephanie Rond is someone I've come to deeply respect in a short period of time.
I'm not sure there's an exact equivalent for men or for both genders, but it seems like new groups are forming all the time --Cap City Creatives, pARTy Columbus, etc., etc. True, the older, more established groups might be less open to new members, but the energy seems to be more with the newer groups anyway. And you could always get together and form your own...

Yes, this conversation took place prior to your post so I will assume they were talking about the older groups. I have heard nothing but good things with the new organizations popping up especially for 400 Rich.

Posted 11 months ago #
cheap
Westgate
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chris,join me for a bridge tournament in upper arlington.

wait,how old are you?

Posted 11 months ago #
ChrisSunami
King-Lincoln District
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36. I've never played bridge, but I'm a long time Bid Whist player so I imagine I could pick it up pretty quick. Not sure they'd let me into UA however ;-)

Posted 11 months ago #
Porky
C-Bus' East Side
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And here I thought my folks were playing Bid Wiz!

Posted 11 months ago #
Pablo
Crestview Addition
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Sounds like you all agree with Rush:

RUSH: Now, I may or may not get in trouble. A little story here from Columbus, Ohio. "Lending a helping hand was more satisfying than winning a state championship Saturday for Meghan Vogel." The story is from the Springfield, Ohio News-Sun, circulation 100. It's a tiny little paper. Nothing wrong with that. I'm just trying to tell you as much as I can about the source.

"The West Liberty-Salem High School junior was the surprise winner in the Division III girls 1,600 meters in the finals of the state track meet at Ohio State’s Jesse Owens Stadium. She broke away from race favorite Tammy Berger of Versailles and Delainey Phelps of Toledo Christian with 300 meters to go. She won going away in 4:58.31. It was the first time she had broken the five-minute mark. What Vogel did at the end of the D-III 3,200 meters, however, got her a standing ovation.

READ MORE

Posted 11 months ago #
cheap
Westgate
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ChrisSunami said:
36. I've never played bridge, but I'm a long time Bid Whist player so I imagine I could pick it up pretty quick. Not sure they'd let me into UA however ;-)

last time i played bid whist,you could smoke in the county jail

Posted 11 months ago #
rus

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Pablo said:
Sounds like you all agree with Rush

Damn. Guess everyone has to be silent or change their opinions then.

Posted 11 months ago #
ChrisSunami
King-Lincoln District
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Pablo said:
Sounds like you all agree with Rush:

Now that's a crime I've never been accused of before! :D

It's funny, I think I actually saw that race (my niece is a local HS track star) but I must have missed that incident.

Look, I definitely think competitiveness is a positive, but I don't think it overrides every other virtue, as Rush and his caller seemed to suggest. The young lady in question obviously had the competitive spirit, since she dominated her other race (according to Rush's own report). If in addition to that she also had a sense of human compassion and a willingness to help out a rival, then that just makes her an all-around winner in my book. As I said initially, I think competition in its most positive form is really a type of collaboration.

cheap said:
last time i played bid whist,you could smoke in the county jail

As I understand it, the two games are very similar, except in bridge the auction is different, the bids are coded, and the winner's partner lays down their hand.

That, and of course the fact that bridge is mainly played by elderly white people in country clubs, and bid whist mainly by elderly black people at family reunions.

Then of course, you have spades as the simplified whist played by younger black people, and euchre as the simplified bridge played by younger white people --wonder if high school aged kids still know those games or not...

Posted 11 months ago #
DavidF
Elysium Fields
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ChrisSunami said:
Now that's a crime I've never been accused of before! :D

It's funny, I think I actually saw that race (my niece is a local HS track star) but I must have missed that incident.

Look, I definitely think competitiveness is a positive, but I don't think it overrides every other virtue, as Rush and his caller seemed to suggest. The young lady in question obviously had the competitive spirit, since she dominated her other race (according to Rush's own report). If in addition to that she also had a sense of human compassion and a willingness to help out a rival, then that just makes her an all-around winner in my book. As I said initially, I think competition in its most positive form is really a type of collaboration.

As I understand it, the two games are very similar, except in bridge the auction is different, the bids are coded, and the winner's partner lays down their hand.

That, and of course the fact that bridge is mainly played by elderly white people in country clubs, and bid whist mainly by elderly black people at family reunions.

Then of course, you have spades as the simplified whist played by younger black people, and euchre as the simplified bridge played by younger white people --wonder if high school aged kids still know those games or not...

I played a ton of spades when I was in the army.

And I don't see where being competitive and being compassionate are in any way incompatible. Good for her.

Posted 11 months ago #
FireEngine
Blacklick or Driving Park
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DavidF said:
I played a ton of spades when I was in the army.

Same here. We could play for days on end waiting for the next something to happen. The MPs would have to come by and tell us to tone it down. Ahh, my nearly forgotten youth.

Some fire stations still play Tonk to see who does the dishes after dinner.

Posted 11 months ago #