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YouTubeManatee... just so I don't misread you... did you just equate the slavery of human beings with farm raised vegetables?
Columbus Underground Messageboard » Events » Film Events
Columbus Premiere of FOOD, Inc. on July 17
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Manatee
The eternal present
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rus wrote >>
Manatee... just so I don't misread you... did you just equate the slavery of human beings with farm raised vegetables?Rus, there are what amounts to human slaves tending to our farm-raised vegetables, even as we type this.
And to extend this into the philosophical realm, any operation which takes the basic organic and inorganic materials given to us by nature, and renders them infertile or poisonous, which is what industrial farming does, may as well be enslaving me. For when the world has been made poisonous, where is the freedom in being alive?
Posted 2 years ago # -
rus
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Manatee wrote >>
rus wrote >>
Manatee... just so I don't misread you... did you just equate the slavery of human beings with farm raised vegetables?Rus, there are what amounts to human slaves tending to our farm-raised vegetables, even as we type this.
And to extend this into the philosophical realm, any operation which takes the basic organic and inorganic materials given to us by nature, and renders them infertile or poisonous, which is what industrial farming does, may as well be enslaving me. For when the world has been made poisonous, where is the freedom in being alive?Thanks for the answer. Just wanted to make sure I was reading that right.
Posted 2 years ago # -
JonMyers
Ao Nang, Krabi, Thailand
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We saw it last night with popcorn and soda in hand.
I've read both Schlosser and Pollan's books and thought the movie was a good reflection of their research into industrial food production. Going into the movie I had a point of view about the topic that more or less aligned with the core ideology of the movie and I guess the movie deepened that point of view.
As to whether or not it's creating converts is a whole other matter. Just like Supersize Me or any other cautionary food documentary with cross over appeal the memory fades fast and we fall back into bad habits because we don't know what to do about what we just saw. Not to mention a lot of people just don't have options.
Wal-mart got too fair of a shake in the movie in my opinion. I'm assuming that was by design in an effort to win mainstream influence.
I'm a little surprised (and dismayed) by the Chipotle partnership. The first 1/3rd of the movie was dedicated to attacking the entire fast food supply chain, fast food philosophy and the destruction unleashed by industrial food production rising to meet the needs of the fast food industry. How Chipotle is philosophically any better and is a true alternative is beyond comprehension to me.
Posted 2 years ago # -
JenniferBrown
Columbus
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Following this Wednesday, July 22, 7:30 p.m. screening, a panel will gather to discuss issues raised in the film, and what's happening in Columbus. The audience is invited to stay after to join the discussion. Panelists include:
- Bill Dawson, Growing Green Program Coordinator, Franklin Park Conservatory
- Michael Jones, Executive Director Local Matters
- Darren Malhame, partner, Northstar Café;
- Annerose Schaffrin, General Manager, Bexley Natural Market
- Warren Taylor, owner and fresh milk advocate, Snowville CreameryMODERATOR: Carol Goland, Executive Director, Ohio Ecological Food & Farm Association will be moderator.
Posted 2 years ago # -
michaelcoyote
!seabus
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JonMyers wrote >>
I'm a little surprised (and dismayed) by the Chipotle partnership....
How Chipotle is philosophically any better and is a true alternative is beyond comprehension to me.
Oh, it's no suprise. Steve Ellis of Chipotle was one of the first major chain restaurant execs to really reject CAFO raised meat starting in 2001 sourcing naturally raised pork at Niman ranch. They have recently started to look for sourcing from a network of smaller farmers.. At this point 100% of their pork and chicken and %50 of their beef (not available in Ohio) are naturally raised
They're not perfect (they recently have been catching heat on their Tomato sourcing), but they seem to be better than McDonalds..
If I'm stuck on the road with no good food for miles, I get a burrito bowl (no tortilla) with light rice, no cheese, no sour cream and extra guac and salsa. Not bad at all
Posted 2 years ago # -
Bear
The woods
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rus wrote >>
Manatee wrote >>
rus wrote >>
Manatee... just so I don't misread you... did you just equate the slavery of human beings with farm raised vegetables?Rus, there are what amounts to human slaves tending to our farm-raised vegetables, even as we type this.
And to extend this into the philosophical realm, any operation which takes the basic organic and inorganic materials given to us by nature, and renders them infertile or poisonous, which is what industrial farming does, may as well be enslaving me. For when the world has been made poisonous, where is the freedom in being alive?Thanks for the answer. Just wanted to make sure I was reading that right.
To be fair, Manatee's not the one equating farming with slavery. Some in the food industry are doing it; she's just reporting it.
Posted 2 years ago # -
michaelcoyote
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Bear wrote >>
rus wrote >>
Manatee wrote >>
rus wrote >>
Manatee... just so I don't misread you... did you just equate the slavery of human beings with farm raised vegetables?Rus, there are what amounts to human slaves tending to our farm-raised vegetables, even as we type this.
And to extend this into the philosophical realm, any operation which takes the basic organic and inorganic materials given to us by nature, and renders them infertile or poisonous, which is what industrial farming does, may as well be enslaving me. For when the world has been made poisonous, where is the freedom in being alive?Thanks for the answer. Just wanted to make sure I was reading that right.
To be fair, Manatee's not the one equating farming with slavery. Some in the food industry are doing it; she's just reporting it.
This is nothing new either.. I recall watching news reports 25 years ago about holding migrant workers..
Posted 2 years ago # -
turnedNOTburned
Grandview/Columbus, Ohio
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Can anyone compare this to a "Micheal Moore" style documentary? I like what Moore seemingly tries to do, but, the pragmatist in me takes exception to the exceedingly "one-sided" nature of his arguments.
Does it seem more "fair and balanced" in its way it gets its point across? Being raised on a family farm (and watching my parents go from local, to international distribution as a part of a corporate egg farm) I'm guessing I'll be able to provide some compelling counterpoints.
Posted 2 years ago # -
rus
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michaelcoyote wrote >>
Bear wrote >>
rus wrote >>
Manatee wrote >>
rus wrote >>
Manatee... just so I don't misread you... did you just equate the slavery of human beings with farm raised vegetables?Rus, there are what amounts to human slaves tending to our farm-raised vegetables, even as we type this.
And to extend this into the philosophical realm, any operation which takes the basic organic and inorganic materials given to us by nature, and renders them infertile or poisonous, which is what industrial farming does, may as well be enslaving me. For when the world has been made poisonous, where is the freedom in being alive?Thanks for the answer. Just wanted to make sure I was reading that right.
To be fair, Manatee's not the one equating farming with slavery. Some in the food industry are doing it; she's just reporting it.
This is nothing new either.. I recall watching news reports 25 years ago about holding migrant workers..
No argument about working conditions of migrant workers; I see that as a different argument than "agriculture oppresses plants" though.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Bear
The woods
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Well, "agriculture oppresses plants" isn't quite it, I think.
We're all on the same page that occasionally people enslave people to produce plants, and that's bad.
The larger point about industrial ag is that it's based on a pernicious system of incentives because, in a world in which the long-term consequences of actions (in terms of environmental degradation etc.) are debated and individual contributions to those consequences are negligible, consumers make choices based on what's cheapest and easiest in the short run, not what's best in the long run, and industry responds rationally to those incentives. As a result, we do what's optimal in the short run, not the long run.
Is that slavery? Not in the pre-Civil War American slave definition, of course not. But I think Manatee's point is that people are trapped in this larger system of incentives whether they like it or not.
Posted 2 years ago # -
michaelcoyote
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turnedNOTburned wrote >>
Can anyone compare this to a "Micheal Moore" style documentary? I like what Moore seemingly tries to do, but, the pragmatist in me takes exception to the exceedingly "one-sided" nature of his arguments.
Does it seem more "fair and balanced" in its way it gets its point across? Being raised on a family farm (and watching my parents go from local, to international distribution as a part of a corporate egg farm) I'm guessing I'll be able to provide some compelling counterpoints.I've not seen much of Moore's work other than "Roger & Me" and his short lived TV series (although I find him entertaining, I agree that he's not really all that balanced). This was a bit along those lines, so if you're looking for an "agri-business" POV here, this may seemed skewed..
On the other hand I think it presents a lot of under-reported information in a pretty interesting way (agri-business has never had an problem getting their message in front of the public or legislators).
Personally I thought it was a touch strident. On the other hand I personally believe that there's a lot of problems in the way food is currently produced, and perhaps this is something worth getting ourselves worked up over. From the heavy subsidies on corn and the money being thrown around by the agri-business lobby to blunt food safety and anti-trust laws, perhaps people should be more angry.
Really though, my biggest fault of the film was one of omission.. Not about the reality of agri-business creating the highest yielding crops in the history of humans (that *was* in there if only for a second).. it was the omission of Michael Pollan's most subversive idea..
"Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants."
This was the centerpiece of his book "In Defense of Food" and was glaringly missing from the film.. While there was some talk about voting with our food dollar, that seemed to me a statement about activism. Pollan's statement to my mind is more of a statement of personal responsibility.
When I first read that line I thought of the times where I ate less food so that I could buy healthier food.. I personally believe we don't need to be full every meal (some of the more recent studies I've seen agree with me) as long as we choose healthy and nutritionally dense foods. It's a choice I've had to make in the past and while it does suck, it didn't kill me. If I had a kid I'd probably gladly forgo a full meal to make sure my kid had healthy food...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Manatee
The eternal present
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Thanks, Bear, that is exactly what I am saying.
Sometimes, no pun intended, I get so over excited about this issue that I dig a hole for myself.
I don't like the feeling that I have no choice, and that in order to have a choice, i have to be relatively well-off financially.
I spent a good portion of yesterday looking at the USRDA recommendations for daily calorie intake, and how they recommend that's broken down. I wanted to see what the minimum I could spend would be, if i bought only local, organic food.
A friend of mine just happened to be going to the old Wild Oats, now Whole Foods in Upper Arlington. I know it would be better to hit farmer's markets and the North Market, those experiments will be next for me.
So, for a 2,000 calorie per day diet, this was the cost breakdown:
6 lbs fruit per week @ $3.50/lb = $21
8 lbs veggies per week @ $3.50/lb = $28-- both of these might be substantially less at a farmer's market or through a CSA
2.5 lbs whole grains per week = about $8 for two loaves of bread as a baseline, if you bake your own it could be much less expensive
2.5 lbs meat, beans, nuts or seeds-- this was the killer. If you just do beans, it can be very inexpensive, just a few dollars a week. If you do meat, and choose free-range, grass fed, organic, local etc., it will be substantially more, but OH SO DELICIOUS it will blow your mind. Also, I have a hunch that getting down to Bluescreek at the North Market might yield some deals. Will follow up on this, the figures I'm looking for are prices per pound. In the end, I settled for beans and nuts this week, $8 total.
10 lbs dairy per week is recommended, I could never eat that much but if I did, Snowville Milk is very economical, just $2.99 per half gallon most places I've seen it. However, at 10 lbs dairy per week, that would still be $30/wk at the cheapest! I personally feel the USRDA leans a little heavy on the dairy products (witness the incredible amount of dairy recommended by the WIC program), so I just budgeted $6 for this. A block of organic cheese.
I also take a fish oil supplement, and a basic adult mulitvitamin, which adds more cost.
But without those, my grand total was $74. Not too shabby... but not Aldi's either.
Posted 2 years ago # -
drew
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That's an interesting practical exercise, Manatee. If you assume 3 meals per day, 7 days a week, that comes out to about $3.52/meal.
Shame it doesn't include meat as well, or the seasonings and the like needed to bind the raw ingredients together as complete recipes. I'd guess, though, that if you redo the exercise with farmer's market produce, it would allow enough room to include at least some of those omissions for about the same total cost.
Posted 2 years ago # -
rus
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michaelcoyote wrote >>
"Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants."Read that line a while back; think it was in an Economist write up on food.
As much as I despise saying it, it works. After over a year of eating red meat only on weekends and effectively being vegetarian on week days I've lost a chunk of weight, a few pants sizes, and last blood tests I had showed normal levels of everything.
Still feels like a personal failure and that I'm less of a person for being mostly vegetarian, but the results are there.
Posted 2 years ago # -
michaelcoyote
!seabus
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rus wrote >>
michaelcoyote wrote >>
"Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants."Read that line a while back; think it was in an Economist write up on food.
As much as I despise saying it, it works. After over a year of eating red meat only on weekends and effectively being vegetarian on week days I've lost a chunk of weight, a few pants sizes, and last blood tests I had showed normal levels of everything.
Still feels like a personal failure and that I'm less of a person for being mostly vegetarian, but the results are there.Shrug.. I dono why people make it a big deal to have to eat meat for every meal.. I didn't eat much meat for a long time.. aside from the occasional burger or chicken, I just didn't eat significant amounts of meat... nor did I miss it all that much.. In it's stead I ate more veggies, beans, pasta and fish..
This changed when I got a new job where I traveled all the time and was on an expense account.. I still don't eat meat for every meal, but I eat it much more often than I used to and I find that I actually have to actively avoid eating meat at times. In addition, healthier options are hard to find as most restaurants like to pile on the food (restaurant eating is a killer for any kind of portion control)... My bad habits spilled over to the weekends (more eating out when I came home as I was too busy to cook).
as a result I'm heavier now and have less energy (though this might be due to not getting any kind of normal workouts due to travel). When I'm on the road a lot I find myself I missing my diet and cooking for myself..
Posted 2 years ago # -
Manatee
The eternal present
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Lest I forget, a relatively cheap option when it comes to getting wholesome, local, organic protein is: eggs.
And I think the next step in my experiment, as Andy has suggested, is to parse out the best bets for condiments, fats and spices. Another interesting caveat: the USRDA of course has no allowance for smokes, booze or coffee. And the recommended allowance per day for sugary junk crap is only 267 calories or some such. Which reminds me, every time I hear folks lamenting how expensive good food is, I think: if we took all the money Americans spend on booze, smokes, coffee, and junk food, and used instead to address world hunger and soil fertility... hey, I bet that'd pack quite a punch.
I recoiled in horror when I was at a relative's house recently and they sprayed everything with tons of fake butter spray, claiming "this is just like butter, but it's healthy".
I can't help but think that judicious amounts of butter and olive oil on a daily basis would be better than eating something made out of a list of chemicals a mile long.
Plus good god, butter tastes so good.
I don't think a relatively small condiments and fats investment would really be all that expensive, it would last quite a while (especially, as Andy said, if produce costs were brought down by shopping farmer's markets, and if spices were bought in bulk and stored in reusable jars). Plus, with gardening or farmer's markets, herbs could be had cheaply. If you get a bumper crop of herbs, it's rel;atively easy to freeze them in cubes, or dry them, for winter use.
And I have definitely found that the fresher and more lovingly grown the food is, the less fat and spice you really need to doctor it up. One really fresh egg, cooked in a cast iron pan with just a smidgen of butter, on unbuttered homemade wheat bread with just a dusting of salt and pepper and perhaps a few slices of tomato and a leaf or two of greenery--- it's deeply satiating, and cheap. And then I can go through my morning full of energy, but not overfull, and without feeling trapped by my conscience. Win/win.
ETA: there's also nothing like paying a premium for good food, to make you REALLY savor every single bite, and not waste ANY. Enjoy the fragrance of that fresh tomato, really let it transport you. Then eat the hell out of it. No more "crisper" drawer full of half-rotten vegetables (in my house we call the crisper drawer "the rotter", because once something goes in there, it's no longer of this world).
Also: hilarity! Do you remember the AEP thread here that got into the argument about refrigeration... now I am starting to see more and more articles advocating less refrigeration for fresh foods, starting with nutritional reasons but extending outward from there... check out this new book by Susanne Freidberg:
http://www.ethicurean.com/2009/06/06/fresh-a-perishable-history/
Posted 2 years ago # -
rus
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I readily admit it's a personal thing.
First 2 months was effectively vegan... every day I wanted meat. Once I found myself licking my lips when looking at geese. Stabilized that with red meat on the weekends. Also helps that I don't look at food as something pleasurable now; just fuel.
Sucks to have choices constrained, eh?
Posted 2 years ago #
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