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Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Art & Artists

Columbus Needs a Symphony

(38 posts) (2853 views)
  • Started 1 year ago by DTclarinet
  • Latest reply from Manatee

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    DTclarinet

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    As the 15th largest city in the US, Columbus is about to become a statistic: the only major US city without a comparably major orchestra.

    Despite rumors to the contrary, the life of orchestras around the country is very much alive.

    Orchestras bring people downtown. They stimulate the downtown economy by helping support area businesses such as restaurants and shops.

    We all know that City Center has been dying for years. That's part of the problem and could become part of the solution. Anyone who examines the history of other orchestras will find a pattern. An orchestra suffering from general neglect will reflect in the city's vitality, as we are seeing with Columbus. On the other hand, an orchestra which is proudly supported by ALL its citizens, will stimulate the whole city in remarkable ways. I refer to the habit of MAJOR corporations seeking a viable home for their employees. A high quality corporation will have high quality employees, who seek high quality cities to live in. If the employees are less likely to move to a city, the corporation will skip over that city.

    One excellent example is the story of the Dallas Symphony. I now quote from a supporter of the Symphony, David Lundberg, who moved to Columbus two years ago and was amazed at the quality of the orchestra he heard here. These quotes are excerpted from an excellent letter he wrote, which is posted in full on my blog, The Buzzing Reed. http://glitteringstew.com/reed

    ...The DSO emerged from bankruptcy in 1974, at full strength, thanks to some farsighted people including Stanley Marcus (Neiman Marcus). During the 70’ s, the DSO had a series of short-term and guest conductors, who allowed the Orchestra to become uninspired and sloppy. Enter Maestro Eduardo Mata, a masterful technician like Reiner, who awakened the musicians’ desire to perform at a higher level. Same script - sour critic, European tour, great reviews, and wonderful community response. The whole situation in Dallas remains positive to this day – pride in and of the musicians, fiscal stability, great arts community, good endowment, a great new $130 Million venue and no debt.

    In the ensuing years, many Fortune 500 companies relocated their headquarters to the Dallas area. Ones that quickly come to mind are American Airlines, JC Penney, Exxon Mobil, Kimberly Clark, Co—America Bank, Fluor, and Ericsson Telecommunications (North America). Is there a connection here? You bet there is. When major companies decide to relocate, they establish a profile of the qualities that they are seeking at the new location. Common to these profiles is the absolute requirement of a superb, vigorous cultural community (led most naturally by the symphony and opera). While this is not the only criterion, the importance of a vital classical art landscape is undeniable.

    As you can see, this is not a matter which concerns only the few thousand people who regularly attend concerts. It is a vital issue which cannot be ignored without regrettable consequences.

    You can join the discussion at a new blog I created for that purpose, at Columbus Symphony Musicians Blog.http://symphonycolumbus.blogspot.com

    A member of YOUR orchestra

    David Thomas

    Principal Clarinetist here since 1989.

    Teacher of your kids, payer of taxes, contributer to your city.

    Posted 1 year ago # |
  2. enzo

    enzo

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    I listened on WOSU this morning to the situation with the Dayton Philharmonic Orhcestra passing out buy one get one free passes to some neighborhoods in Columbus--I thought that was stepping on toes!!!

    Music is Art and Columbus supports art, so everybody lets do something to help. Maybe we can do a symphony event CU meet up? Maybe go to the symphony then Bristol afterwards!!! I do not think it is promoted adequately. If they hired Scott Litch they would have no problems with attendance.

    Posted 1 year ago # |
  3. Andrew Hall

    Andrew Hall
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    enzo wrote

    Music is Art and Columbus supports art, so everybody lets do something to help. Maybe we can do a symphony event CU meet up? Maybe go to the symphony then Bristol afterwards!!! I do not think it is promoted adequately. If they hired Scott Litch they would have no problems with attendance.

    Did you ever go in the past to support the Symphony? Or are you just babbling here? Are you completely oblivious to the numerous calls to do something, get involved earlier or are you just now waking up to this stunning news?

    The CSO has re-buffed efforts to have any sort of interactive or special events to market themselves to a CU audience. They have shown no interest in doing anything more than what they have always done - look for another Sugar Daddy.

    I could add a lot more, but I have already done so in multiple threads. I wish for a vibrant Classical music presence in Columbus, but I don't think the CSO has any part of that future.

    DTClarinet wrote Orchestras bring people downtown. They stimulate the downtown economy by helping support area businesses such as restaurants and shops.

    Has the CSO done anything to promote a mutually beneficial relationship with Downtown? In other threads, I have rattled off numerous ideas that would create a relationship with Downtown and the businesses there. I will agree 100% w/ Enzo on one thing - the CSO has never been promoted adequately and has maintained a way of doing business which just continues the spiral.

    (And I realize I am using 'the CSO' as a singular entity when it is really made up of factions, all competing, all responsible)

    A.

    Posted 1 year ago # |
  4. joev

    joev
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    There's no logic in that argument. Just because every other major city has an orchestra, Columbus doesn't NEED one. We need to have something different, something better, and something that broad segments of Central Ohioans WANT to attend. In my experience, 1/3 of the attendees at an orchestra performance are there because they want to be, 1/3 are there because someone else wants them to be and 1/3 are there because they feel like they should be cultured enough to enjoy it (but don't.)

    Something more proletarian would be nice. Something like a permanent Pink Floyd laser lights show would probably do really well.

    Posted 1 year ago # |
  5. Andrew Hall

    Andrew Hall
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    joev wrote Something like a permanent Pink Floyd laser lights show would probably do really well.

    I'd rather see NASCAR @ Cooper Stadium.

    A.

    Posted 1 year ago # |
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    DTclarinet

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    Fine, get the Pink Floyd light show, organize it, fund it, and we'll play along with it.

    The point is MANY people DO like having the option to go downtown. It's not ONLY the orchestra which makes downtown, but a great orchestra is something a great downtown can be built on.

    Take a look at the Minnesota Orchestra's web site, and their hall.

    That GETS your attention. Yes, the Symphony needs to market itself better. How? Tell us.

    Do you (or think others might) want 5 or 6PM concerts for after work? Concerts in the Short North on Gallery Hop? What?

    Another thing, people tend to get MORE into classical music as they age, possibly including YOU ALL. After you realize the ephemeral nature of fads and "pop" culture, classical music becomes more appealing, since it withstands incredible scrutiny and repeated hearings. The more you hear a great classical piece, the more you realize how much is in it.

    We live in an increasingly "instant gratification" style culture. Classical music needs to adjust some, but I bet you Brahms music will be listened to WAY after Pink Floyd is a niche which looks quaint but kind of drab from a distance.

    Thoughts?

    David

    Posted 1 year ago # |
  7. Andrew Hall

    Andrew Hall
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    DTclarinet wrote Yes, the Symphony needs to market itself better. How? Tell us.

    We have. Repeatedly. Not just here on CU, but in numerous venues, feedback to the management and more. I am sorry, but I really don't have the time, energy or desire to piss in the wind anymore.

    Another thing, people tend to get MORE into classical music as they age, possibly including YOU ALL. After you realize the ephemeral nature of fads and "pop" culture, classical music becomes more appealing, since it withstands incredible scrutiny and repeated hearings. The more you hear a great classical piece, the more you realize how much is in it.

    We live in an increasingly "instant gratification" style culture. Classical music needs to adjust some, but I bet you Brahms music will be listened to WAY after Pink Floyd is a niche which looks quaint but kind of drab from a distance.

    Thoughts?

    Yeah, but I try to be nice.

    As long as you look down upon your potential audience, you will fail. As long as you look at classical music as the inevitable pinnacle, you will fail. And deservedly so.

    What classical music as a whole has repeatedly failed to appreciate is that there is intense competition now from equally sophisticated and rewarding musical options. The incredible world of music from around the globe is accessible now. "Early music" has a very solid niche. Jazz and its spawn has both an American history and a vibrant culture which puts to shame the moribund and incestuous Classical culture. Even DJs and electronic musicians have a repetoire and a reference frame that includes Classical and Early to Stockhausen or Glass. The arrogance of the Classical music establishment is neither warranted nor valid anymore.

    If I had to choose between Brahms and Pink Floyd, I'd opt for one particular piece of Cage.

    edit - And your picture proves one of my repeated points : Kill the Palace theatre as a venue. Too costly, too uncomfortable, too dead white male.

    A.

    Posted 1 year ago # |
  8. Walker

    Walker
    The KLD
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  9. mitchellosu

    mitchellosu
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    DTclarinet wrote We all know that City Center has been dying for years. That's part of the problem and could become part of the solution. Anyone who examines the history of other orchestras will find a pattern. An orchestra suffering from general neglect will reflect in the city's vitality, as we are seeing with Columbus.

    This sounds like a game of Justify Your Existence: Symphony Style. Don't blame Columbus and its citizens because your organization couldn't stay out of the red. I agree that a symphony is pivotal to providing a great and varied arts community, but every organization needs to stay current, retain and expand its customer base, and above all, take in more than you spend.

    It looks like you've ran out of old women in Bexley to bail out your organization.

    Posted 1 year ago # |
  10. blammo

    blammo
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    "Columbus Needs A Symphony That Can Support Itself"

    Posted 1 year ago # |
  11. mitchellosu

    mitchellosu
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    blammo wrote "Columbus Needs A Symphony That Can Support Itself"

    Amen.

    Posted 1 year ago # |
  12. joev

    joev
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    DTclarinet wrote Fine, get the Pink Floyd light show, organize it, fund it, and we'll play along with it.

    Wow. If there were any doubt you were in a union...

    You're one of the few people who has a real stake in whether the CSO comes back or not. It should now be quite obvious to you that classical music, while still a beautiful art form, is not a commercially viable business in Columbus. I think that probably has something to do with the fact that you lose a whole lot of the magic of the live music experience when there are no words, no spontaneity and you sit up in the nosebleed section and it sounds just like an iPod.

    If you want your job back, you're going to have to figure out a way to make people want to hear your music. Shoving it down their throats as good medicine doesn't work anymore. You should see yourself as an entrepreneur rather than an artiste.

    Posted 1 year ago # |
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    XLD
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    DTclarinet wrote We all know that City Center has been dying for years. That's part of the problem and could become part of the solution.

    Yes. I'd like to see all the downtown theaters presented more prominently and coherently. There was talk of a 'Theater District' - Ohio, Southern, Riffe, Palace - but I never heard much from that. CATCO seems buried in the Riffe Center, for example. I'd like to see the theaters and the groups that perform in them become a prominent part of any City Center revitalization. There should be stronger branding for the area along with options for before/after show destinations.

    Similarly, I wonder if there's room for more collaboration among all the classical music groups, at least in terms of marketing. I have to think that the CSO, Promusica, Chamber Music Columbus, Early Music in Columbus and even Opera Columbus and BalletMet etc. etc. are hitting similar targets and could pull together marketing into a single advertisement and such (I use this site).

    I also wonder if there's room for more collaboration with OSU. At one of the last CSO performances this year, a couple bus loads of music students organized a trip to the concert. That should have been happening all along, with the CSO pushing and aiding.

    The Gallery Hop concerts sound like a good idea. I would like to see some low-key small ensemble/solo performances in very intimate bar settings. Sip a scotch while taking in a Bach cello suite, for example.

    But then I tend to prefer chamber music, which gets at another possible CSO obstacle with no easy answer - the program is key for me. I'm a sucker for any show including Beethoven. I'd love to see more Shostakovich and other more brazen music - but your typical audience might not. The user-selected program was a good idea.

    blammo wrote Columbus Needs A Symphony That Can Support Itself"

    I think that's understood. The challenge is how to accomplish that.

    Andrew Hall wrote Kill the Palace theatre as a venue. Too costly, too uncomfortable, too dead white male.

    A quick nitpick for nitpick's sake - the CSO is in the Ohio.

    joev wrote Wow . . . I think that probably has something to do with the fact that you lose a whole lot of the magic of the live music experience when there are no words . . .

    Wow to you.

    Posted 1 year ago # |
  14. joev

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    XLD wrote

    joev wrote Wow . . . I think that probably has something to do with the fact that you lose a whole lot of the magic of the live music experience when there are no words . . .

    Wow to you.

    Way to parse a quote.

    Posted 1 year ago # |
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    XLD
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    joev wrote
    XLD wrote

    joev wrote Wow . . . I think that probably has something to do with the fact that you lose a whole lot of the magic of the live music experience when there are no words . . .

    Wow to you.

    Way to parse a quote.

    I was just picking out the pieces to make my post make sense - I didn't think I was altering any meaning.

    And I didn't mean to be personal or so curt - I was at the end of my longer post above when I read your reply and threw that on as a knee-jerk reaction. It is a commonly held sentiment (the music without words complaint), but it is one that baffles me. I would venture that those who hold that opinion are beyond the reach of the CSO under any circumstances.

    Posted 1 year ago # |
  16. joev

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    XLD wrote
    joev wrote
    XLD wrote

    joev wrote Wow . . . I think that probably has something to do with the fact that you lose a whole lot of the magic of the live music experience when there are no words . . .

    Wow to you.

    Way to parse a quote.

    I was just picking out the pieces to make my post make sense - I didn't think I was altering any meaning.

    And I didn't mean to be personal or so curt - I was at the end of my longer post above when I read your reply and threw that on as a knee-jerk reaction. It is a commonly held sentiment (the music without words complaint), but it is one that baffles me. I would venture that those who hold that opinion are beyond the reach of the CSO under any circumstances.

    It's not just that music without words is a bit alienating - it's those other factors I mentioned combined.

    Posted 1 year ago # |
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    XLD
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    joev wrote It's not just that music without words is a bit alienating - it's those other factors I mentioned combined.

    Gotcha. I think I keyed in on the words thing because it's something I've heard before and apparently is a sore spot for me.

    Posted 1 year ago # |
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    DTclarinet

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    How many of you are in city planning? The arts? Development? Marketing?

    How many work for a corporation? Do you make the rules of your jobs? Your hours? Is is reasonable that most CEO's make 10,000 times their average employee's salaries? How are those "laws" of "sustainability" or "marketability" come by?

    How many are self-employed? Do you like it? Are you rich? Happy? Self Empowered?

    Anyone of you work for a non-profit? Have you heard that orchestras are non-profit organizations? Many of you seemed happy to state that "Columbus needs an orchestra that can sustain itself". Do you know how non-profits work?

    Joshua Bell (know who he is?) played for 2 hours in a subway station in Washington DC during the morning rush as an experiment. Most people didn't even notice him playing. Some stopped to listen. Understandably, everyone was on their way to work. But this is one of the best violinists in the world, unquestionably. He made about 35 dollars for two hours. What's the market telling him? Would he be better off working at WalMart?

    Would you guys know the "Hope Diamond" if you saw it in the cheap jewelry section of K-mart? (I'm not boasting, I wouldn't know it)

    Is quality defined by what people are drawn to? By that standard, McDonald's is the hope diamond of food. If everyone says a place is great to eat at, does that make the food good? I've eaten at Rosendales twice, and can't understand why people spend their money there. It's bogus French food at Paris prices in Columbus. Why do people waste their money there?

    I will certainly study the apparently copious ideas that have been spawned here and in other threads. Thank you for the links, by the way.

    I am not the CSO management. I am a lowly "union" employee, trying to figure out why someone (our Executive Director) is being paid $187,000 to run the orchestra, and who should have harvested ideas from places like here, yet has failed tragically (for me at least) at his job. Is that part of the market driven thinking you are bantering about here? Yet, we (the union) cannot "fire" him. Can you fire your boss if you think he sucks at his job? Is that productive market driven thinking?

    If you will tell me your individual vocations, so I can scrutinize them, I am happy to absorb more flip banter from you all.

    In the meantime, if you have specific ideas, educated (and experienced, sorry to sound snobby) ideas of how an orchestra can better serve this city, let me know.

    (I have noted the few which have been suggested in this thread. Thank you to those who suggested them)

    I have noted that we should:

    1)play for Gallery Hop

    2)play more concerts of different sized groups to appeal to different tastes

    3)play more music with "words". (you mean, like, Opera?)

    3.5) stop playing in "white" people halls

    4)Stay tuned to the ideas suggested by users of CU

    5)Dig up some old Bexley ladies

    6)set up our own Pink Floyd show, fund it, build it, AND play for it!

    7)Get a Hall with a cool, HUGE Photo of our music director and blow up the Ohio and perhaps the Palace, too. (I like that idea a lot!)

    8)Join together with other arts groups to coordinate events downtown.

    9)Build our own theater district downtown. (I'll have to work on my city planning and marketing skills, but I bet I can do it better than those paid to do it)

    Some things we DO plan to do are:

    Play a country club series (to find more rich, LIVING old ladies)

    Start a series of "in house" concerts of chamber music,

    Develop grassroots support, including groups like CU, to keep finding better ways to connect with you.

    Play many more concerts in schools, with small groups and large.

    Play a series of "satellite" concerts around the far suburbs like Dublin, Westerville, Reynoldsburg.

    Don't mind my occasionally acrid tone. It's just my way of getting used to yours.

    David Thomas

    Posted 1 year ago # |
  19. laChewla

    laChewla
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    joev wrote

    You're one of the few people who has a real stake in whether the CSO comes back or not. It should now be quite obvious to you that classical music, while still a beautiful art form, is not a commercially viable business in Columbus. I think that probably has something to do with the fact that you lose a whole lot of the magic of the live music experience when there are no words, no spontaneity and you sit up in the nosebleed section and it sounds just like an iPod.

    Damn. I think there's a misunderstanding here - perhaps we can talk this one out in person.

    An ipod sounds like recorded sound. It sounds like everything you listen to. It is impossible for an orchestral concert to "sound like an ipod." Actually - the ipod is digitally sounding like the orchestra.

    Spontaneity = live performance. Just because a certain form of music comes printed on music and is rehearsed before performance doesn't mean it lacks spontaneity. When a first violin snaps a string during a performance, or the conductor raises the tempo suddenly, or a solo is played in a beautiful, lyrical fashion that could never be EXACTLY repeated again...yeah. That would be pretty spontaneous in my book.

    As far as words go... *hmph* I have none for you on this, buddy.

    Posted 1 year ago # |
  20. Andrew Hall

    Andrew Hall
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    Long screeds about how the yobs don't appreciate what you are doing is not going to entice anyone to go to the Symphony or start liking Classical music. Alas, that has been the attitude of the whole Classical music edifice since time out of mind. You came here looking for help from us and the CSO needs support. Do really think that berating your potential market is going to do it?

    Perhaps you would have encountered a less acrid tone from us if you had been bothered to read those threads before you posted. Not only is that the courteous thing to do, it would have been more productive. Some of us have spilled a fair amount of electrons on exactly this subject and have no desire to repeat ourselves, especially if you are too lazy to look.

    I appreciate that the snippiness here must be frustrating, but you are in a position of doing market research (and begging). When you are doing market research, you just have to grin and bear it when your product gets attacked. Getting snippy yourself only further derails the process and entices more sarcasm and antics.

    It seems to me that you came here not to get support for the Symphony or listen to any ideas, but to defend the Symphony and engage in the usual harangues about the masses not appreciating Classical music.

    A.

    Posted 1 year ago # |