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Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion
Moody Nolan Imagines New Office Tower for Columbus Bicentennial Magazine
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MichaelC
Downtown
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Who is guilty of the "we'll take what we can get" mentality? The company and developer and architect and co? Or the people for not demanding for more inventive or practical structures when companies and developers and architects put together new projects?
Or is this a condemnation of us as a city generally?
Posted 1 year ago # -
jbcmh81
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MichaelC said:
Who is guilty of the "we'll take what we can get" mentality? The company and developer and architect and co? Or the people for not demanding for more inventive or practical structures when companies and developers and architects put together new projects?Or is this a condemnation of us as a city generally?
I think the attitude permeates everything, from residents on up. People still seem to be in the Cowtown mentality when we haven't been that in a long time.
Posted 1 year ago # -
columbusmike
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I think a lot of developers and architects are still suck on the idea that the automobile is king...therefore our architecture downtown (and in suburbia) reflects what you see from your car, and not what you experience on foot. You rarely see an architectural perspective of a building from a sidewalk...it's nearly always from the street.
9 times out of 10, clients are more interested in the interior of their building compared to the outside.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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jbcmh81 said:This is exactly the kind of project that is accepted in a "better than nothing so we'll take it" Columbus mentality.
Just because some people happen to disagree with you, it doesn't always mean those people are a part of some larger groupthink "mentality". That's a very condescending way to state your stance on the topic, and doesn't do much to sway anyone to your side of the argument.
Posted 1 year ago # -
MichaelC
Downtown
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People still seem to be in the Cowtown mentality when we haven't been that in a long time.
I'm sure you're right that there are some people that have the Cowtown mentality, but do you think the lack of public outrage over a new development and new jobs downtown is indicative of that...or that it's fair to extrapolate that to being indicative of a city-wide symptom of low expectations?
Posted 1 year ago # -
hugh59
Aboard the ultimate power in Olde Towne East
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I remember watching a documentary series about building high rise office buildings back in the 80s. The architects back then said that the cost goes up exponentially with the height. After 40 floors, it is rarely worth the expense of building higher. Unless the cost of real estate is horrendously high (like on Manhattan island) it is generally better to build a 40 floor building on a bigger footprint.
What is the vacancy rate in the Huntington Tower? What is it in the other high rises in downtown? It would be a disaster to have mostly vacant office tower like that downtown.
Posted 1 year ago # -
jbcmh81
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Walker said:
Just because some people happen to disagree with you, it doesn't always mean those people are a part of some larger groupthink "mentality". That's a very condescending way to state your stance on the topic, and doesn't do much to sway anyone to your side of the argument.It's not about disagreement, it's about not demanding better. There are some great forward-thinking people in this city who don't settle (I think many on CU are those people), but there are far too many people who do. We see this in the lack of mass transit to suburban-style building in the urban core to a lack of significant art projects to the constant struggles with our cultural institutions like the Columbus Symphony. There is a reason that these things are happening, right? So if it isn't a general acceptance for mediocrity, what do you think that reason is?
Posted 1 year ago # -
rus
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jbcmh81 said:
It's not about disagreement, it's about not demanding better. There are some great forward-thinking people in this city who don't settle (I think many on CU are those people), but there are far too many people who do. We see this in the lack of mass transit to suburban-style building in the urban core to a lack of significant art projects to the constant struggles with our cultural institutions like the Columbus Symphony. There is a reason that these things are happening, right? So if it isn't a general acceptance for mediocrity, what do you think that reason is?Maybe some/many/most don't think those are "better"? As in, does the average person see mass transit, art projects, etc. as desirable?
Strikes me that you could be calling lack of support for those ideas mediocrity.
Posted 1 year ago # -
MichaelC
Downtown
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people211 said:
Even though skyscrapers may not be the best use of space in urban areas anymore, it's still kinda cool to live in a city when one is being built. I was kind of jealous when Cincinnati got Great American.That link is wonderful, and it makes me sorely miss the Sim City franchise.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Pablo
Crestview Addition
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I don't think there's anything original about any of the ideas:
Before the MSI Broad St. plan, another landscape architectural firm designed the median but it wasn't implemented due to funding. Prior to that my understanding is that while the City wanted a median, the fire department and Bank One opposed any changes.
Before Pizzuti (and before the MSI downtown study), Sasaki had prepared similar plans for the area as part of the master planning for COSI in the mid '90's.
The Moody Nolan site has had a number of proposals for a tower. The Dispatch planned one, the Capitol Square plan in the '80's called for a tower, etc. The closest we came to a tower was a proposal by Duke Realty in the '90's.
I think plans are great, but if you live long enough you get to see a lot of reruns!
Posted 1 year ago # -
jbcmh81
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rus said:
Maybe some/many/most don't think those are "better"? As in, does the average person see mass transit, art projects, etc. as desirable?Strikes me that you could be calling lack of support for those ideas mediocrity.
Name any truly urban city that's well known that:
1. Doesn't have mass transit beyond buses.
2. Doesn't have any type of city art funding.
3. Views urban design as akin to large surface lots and strip mall-type building, aka the new GY layout.
4. Continuously struggles to fund basic large-city cultural entities like a symphony. Hell, Cleveland has been shrinking in population for 60 years, has massive amounts of blight and one of the worst images of any city outside of Detroit, and yet it has pretty much all of these.Why doesn't Columbus? Either there is no demand for it, meaning that most residents are happy the way things are in that we remain a large city without standard large city amenities, or there is demand and the city doesn't follow through. Which do you think is more likely, or do you believe it's for another reason altogether?
Posted 1 year ago # -
RoundTowner
Miranova
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Pablo said:
I don't think there's anything original about any of the ideas:Before the MSI Broad St. plan, another landscape architectural firm designed the median but it wasn't implemented due to funding. Prior to that my understanding is that while the City wanted a median, the fire department and Bank One opposed any changes.
Before Pizzuti (and before the MSI downtown study), Sasaki had prepared similar plans for the area as part of the master planning for COSI in the mid '90's.
The Moody Nolan site has had a number of proposals for a tower. The Dispatch planned one, the Capitol Square plan in the '80's called for a tower, etc. The closest we came to a tower was a proposal by Duke Realty in the '90's.
I think plans are great, but if you live long enough you get to see a lot of reruns!
Very true...don't forget the other issue that comes up every decade..Trains.
Posted 1 year ago # -
rus
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jbcmh81 said:
Name any truly urban city that's well known that:1. Doesn't have mass transit beyond buses.
2. Doesn't have any type of city art funding.
3. Views urban design as akin to large surface lots and strip mall-type building, aka the new GY layout.
4. Continuously struggles to fund basic large-city cultural entities like a symphony. Hell, Cleveland has been shrinking in population for 60 years, has massive amounts of blight and one of the worst images of any city outside of Detroit, and yet it has pretty much all of these.Why doesn't Columbus? Either there is no demand for it, meaning that most residents are happy the way things are in that we remain a large city without standard large city amenities, or there is demand and the city doesn't follow through. Which do you think is more likely, or do you believe it's for another reason altogether?
Just speculating, but think you're answering your own question there.
From another perspective, Cleveland has all those things and isn't a place where people want to live ( based on "shrinking in population for 60 years" ).
Perhaps what people want isn't "urban" but "jobs", as in economic growth. Amenities may be nice, but won't keep people in place, won't draw people, and aren't really seen as necessary.
Similarly, economic growth can draw people even when severely lacking in basic services not just amenities, such as in Oklahoma.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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jbcmh81 said:
It's not about disagreement, it's about not demanding better. There are some great forward-thinking people in this city who don't settle (I think many on CU are those people), but there are far too many people who do. We see this in the lack of mass transit to suburban-style building in the urban core to a lack of significant art projects to the constant struggles with our cultural institutions like the Columbus Symphony. There is a reason that these things are happening, right? So if it isn't a general acceptance for mediocrity, what do you think that reason is?I agree that there are probably larger trends at work where we as a society settle for what's easy without demanding better. That works across a broad variety of topics, and isn't exclusive to Columbus.
What I'm saying is that when you're talking to someone one-on-one, and they happen to disagree with you, it's condescending to write their opinion off as some part of a larger failing mentality rather than addressing their individual opinion.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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hugh59 said:
What is the vacancy rate in the Huntington Tower? What is it in the other high rises in downtown? It would be a disaster to have mostly vacant office tower like that downtown.Over the past few years, office vacancy rates have been better Downtown than they have been in the suburbs:
And I don't see anyone protesting new suburban office development out of a fear of increased vacancy rates.
Posted 1 year ago #
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