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Rail Transit Development in China

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This topic contains 18 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by News News 11 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #95096
    News
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    World’s longest high-speed rail line opens in China

    AP/ December 26, 2012, 11:06 AM

    BEIJING China on Wednesday opened the world’s longest high-speed rail line that more than halves the time required to travel from the country’s capital in the north to Guangzhou, an economic hub in southern China.

    The opening of the 1,428-mile line was commemorated by the 9 a.m. departure of a train from Beijing for Guangzhou. Another train left Guangzhou for Beijing an hour later.

    READ MORE: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57560846/worlds-longest-high-speed-rail-line-opens-in-china/

    #528040
    TomOver
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    News said:
    World’s longest high-speed rail line opens in China
    AP/ December 26, 2012, 11:06 AM

    BEIJING China on Wednesday opened the world’s longest high-speed rail line that more than halves the time required to travel from the country’s capital in the north to Guangzhou, an economic hub in southern China.

    The opening of the 1,428-mile line was commemorated by the 9 a.m. departure of a train from Beijing for Guangzhou. Another train left Guangzhou for Beijing an hour later.

    READ MORE: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57560846/worlds-longest-high-speed-rail-line-opens-in-china/

    If this is not happening in the US, why not ?

    #528041
    JeepGirl
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    TomOver said:
    If this is not happening in the US, why not ?

    ooh ooh, I know. Because the United States isn’t China?

    #528042
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    JeepGirl said:
    ooh ooh, I know. Because the United States isn’t China?

    Instead of thoughtless snark, how about mustering an argument to refute the claim that high speed trains likely are part of our nation’s solution to energy security issues ? Thanks, I got faith in ya.

    #528043
    Patch
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    TomOver said:
    Instead of thoughtless snark, how about mustering an argument to refute the claim that high speed trains likely are part of our nation’s solution to energy security issues ? Thanks, I got faith in ya.

    China has cheap slave labor so the development costs are minimal?

    #528044

    pez
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    JeepGirl said:
    ooh ooh, I know. Because the United States isn’t China?

    I think this boils it down very well. We do not have an authoritative federal government, a project like this would have every town and property owner as well as every special interest putting their hands in the kitty making it cost prohibitive and tying up a project of this scale in courts and beaurocratic red tape for decades. There are also questions of bringing the federal government in to compete against existing private industry, the lack of high density population areas with local infrastructure to handle it (outside of the east coast where rail already exists).

    The best bet for something like this to get done would be to cook up some military/national defense need, but with the cold war over I don’t see it happening.

    #528045
    JeepGirl
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    Whoa, looks like China is rockin’ its highway infrastructure construction as well.

    Road-Building Rage To Leave U.S. In Dust[/url]

    #528046
    TomOver
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    @ Patch, Pez, and JeepGirl: thanks for the responses. Hooked on CU. That’s why.

    @ JeepGirl: Right. China seems to be building all of the above in terms of infrastructure. They’re doing alternative energy, but also building lots of coal plants and promoting other industrial activity without—if I’m not mistaken—-the same degree of environmental regs as are found in the US, Canada, or Western Europe. So, on further thought, the US is not necessarily lagging behind China.

    My initial request for input was based on thinking that the US is lagging in terms of transport innovation aimed at a more viable energy future. But, in light of input from the 3 of you, it seems it’s likely not quite that simple.

    And, while we’re at it, it might be that no form of alternative transport or alternative energy will be viable for the continuation of industrial society, if we look at it with a deep ecology perspective–or perhaps an anarcho-primitivist one, with or without factoring in peak oil.

    #528047
    bjones7
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    JeepGirl said:
    ooh ooh, I know. Because the United States isn’t China?

    We are not a communist country….

    #528048

    JonMyers
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    @Tom re: why

    This project is a 650 billion dollar project, and is still racking up costs.

    Also, as stated in the article the fares are nearly double to that of the alternatives in order to recoup costs, and thus most people are priced out of this option.

    I don’t see the US ever taking on this kind of expenditure due to the cost, lack of public support, and our state system, which would undoubtedly fail to build consensus on cost, construction and issues of eminent domain.

    While, I think China’s investment in this kind of infrastructure is awesome, and will pay future dividends, I also see a country scrambling to channel a massive surplus of unskilled males into a construction industry in decline.

    Their day of economic reckoning is just around the corner, which is why they’re trying to stir nationalism and are battling Japan over those tiny islands.

    Anyhow, you can only build and finance ghost cities and infrastructure for so long.

    #528049
    Schoolboy
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    Patch said:
    China has cheap slave labor so the development costs are minimal?

    Only because we don’t utilize our welfare and criminal systems correctly.

    Half joking…

    #528050

    Mister Shifter
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    #528051
    TomOver
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    JonMyers said:
    @Tom re: why

    This project is a 650 billion dollar project, and is still racking up costs.

    Also, as stated in the article the fares are nearly double to that of the alternatives in order to recoup costs, and thus most people are priced out of this option.

    I don’t see the US ever taking on this kind of expenditure due to the cost, lack of public support, and our state system, which would undoubtedly fail to build consensus on cost, construction and issues of eminent domain.

    While, I think China’s investment in this kind of infrastructure is awesome, and will pay future dividends, I also see a country scrambling to channel a massive surplus of unskilled males into a construction industry in decline.

    Their day of economic reckoning is just around the corner, which is why they’re trying to stir nationalism and are battling Japan over those tiny islands.

    Anyhow, you can only build and finance ghost cities and infrastructure for so long.

    Thanks Jon. But what do you see as viable solutions in terms of powering industrial society into the future, as far as the US is concerned ?

    That question assumes solutions exist. Folk of various shades of green darker than mainstream techno-fix enviros say they don’t. Consider, among the deep ecology crowd, Derrick Jensen who claims civilization itself can’t be maintained.

    Or consider, among the peak oil and/or ‘peak everything’ crowd, folk such as Richard Heinberg, who say civilization might not be doomed, though industrial civilization probably is. (A solutions-oriented strain of this camp is the Transition Movement which includes Rob Hopkins.)

    You can dismiss such folk as whack-jobs. Or you can include their views to have a broader spectrum of ideas about the future. In the latter case, I’d be interested in where your views fit along the continuum where anarcho-primitivism is at one extreme and uber-optimisitic sci-fi and techo-triumphalism is at the other extreme.

    #528052

    JonMyers
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    @Tom

    Part of the problem in my opinion is we want a one size fits all solution to extremely complex problems. That thinking is what has driven business and corporate cultures trying to preserve the problem to which they are the solution.

    Most institutions operate that way (probablem preservation), and these industries have been more or less winner take all scenarios. These institutions have every incentive to preserve winner take all thinking.

    On the issue.

    Issues of transportation and energy are highly dependent on location and resources.

    I see both problems being addressed with tens, perhaps hundreds of highly tailored approaches that leverage the local natural resources of the locations being served.

    The future I think, hope, will be highly distributed, and let’s hope the market rewards lots of winners, not just a few players, and thus, putting us on the road to constant energy and transportation innovation that makes the Internet look like child’s play.

    #528053

    pez
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    All good points Jon and Tom. At the end of the day, our current infrastructure and what China is building are both luxury items to support the mostly unnecessary moving of people. As gas prices and airfare rise, which they will continue to do, business travel will be replaced with electronic means, leisure travel will become more local. Shipping costs will continue to rise making local products more appealing and causing us to be more selective and reducing what we consume. At the end of the day, I think as Americans, by virtue of our antiquated infrastructure, we are actually closer to the end goal than China, who is just ramping up their consumer driven culture and building to support it.

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