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BYOB in Ohio

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Started 5 months ago by FSonicSmith
Latest reply from mrmann

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FSonicSmith
Columbus-downtown for work, East for the residence
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meltsintowonder said:
From what I know, if the business has a license, you can't take your own. If the business doesn't have a license, then you can take your own and there could be a corkage fee. If you have a good relationship with a restaurant and they know you're not Liquor Control, they will probably allow you to BYO for a special occasion. I don't think Columbus is a savvy enough wine market for a BYO model regardless. Back to your original post, as another poster commented, it might be how you're interpreting the code.

I'm a wine and beer enthusiast and I finished in the bottom half of my class. :)

You've gotten away from the original question. The original question is NOT "what can you do with BYOB in Ohio?". The original question is; Is BYOB not permitted in Ohio because of a direct statutory provision on point, or is it not permitted because the DoLC continues to repeat an incorrect (or correct) interpretation of a statute?". As should be abundantly clear by now, I suspect that the DoLC keeps repeating their own interpretation of a vague statute (centered on the word "keep") and perhaps their interpretation of the open container provision someone else posted above, and it seems clear that this interpretation has never been tested at the Ohio Appellate level.

Posted 5 months ago #
Snarf
Dystopia
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Did someone hijack FSonics account?

Coming across like a huge ASS, crazy.

Posted 5 months ago #
pez

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I'm the one said it would be 'dickish' as your original post indicated that you want to BYOB into a licensed establishment. I posted the ORC and even quoted the relevent sections, for license holders, it seems pretty clear that you can't carry in.

There may be some ambiguity on BYOB for non-licensed places, but my experience is that if you're on private property it's up to the owner to allow/disallow. We've carried into restaurants in Ohio a few times when they didn't have licenses but made it known that it was acceptable. If you have a license, I would feel that bringing in my own wine would be a bit of an insult, although I can see situations where bringing champagne to a place that doesn't normally sell it may be a frequent request.

/late 30s. //wine drinker

Posted 5 months ago #
0Angle
Home-Northwood Park, Breweries-43215
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I'll be 50 in a couple months and the only thing I don't drink is vodka.
I've brought my own bottle of Code Red to Mr. Eggs because Dwayne absolutely won't share his.

Posted 5 months ago #
FSonicSmith
Columbus-downtown for work, East for the residence
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Snarf said:
Did someone hijack FSonics account?

Coming across like a huge ASS, crazy.

No doubt. Sorry. I'll accept the blame.

pez said:
I'm the one said it would be 'dickish' as your original post indicated that you want to BYOB into a licensed establishment. I posted the ORC and even quoted the relevent sections, for license holders, it seems pretty clear that you can't carry in.

There may be some ambiguity on BYOB for non-licensed places, but my experience is that if you're on private property it's up to the owner to allow/disallow. We've carried into restaurants in Ohio a few times when they didn't have licenses but made it known that it was acceptable. If you have a license, I would feel that bringing in my own wine would be a bit of an insult, although I can see situations where bringing champagne to a place that doesn't normally sell it may be a frequent request.

/late 30s. //wine drinker

I started to respond to your post stating that it is the "open container provision" and is inapplicable and that carrying in a closed bottle of wine into a private restaurant can't possibly fall under that provision, but then I thought about it some more and now I don't know. I still think I am right, that it does not apply-since when is having a glass of wine in a restaurant an open-container situation-, but perhaps the exception provision you quoted at the end is the provision the DoLC cites to as being controlling of the issue and perhaps they could prevail both at the administrative level and in the Courts with that.

Posted 5 months ago #
DTown
Discovery District South
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I still think the interpretation is the problem. "Keep" could mean anything, and despite your English grammatical interpretation, I'm not sure that necessarily rules. But, in the end, how you or I interpret it becomes moot, the only thing that matters is how a court would interpret it.

So, you might be right or wrong, but to test it, you'll have to find a proprietor who is willing to have their permit revoked, hire an attorney, go to court, argue it, and prevail or fail. Then you'll know for sure.

I'm doubtful you'll find too many takers, and if the overwhelming sentiment, in Columbus anyway, is that it is not allowed, that's not going to change.

This sort of reminds me of people who argue that they don't have to pay taxes because of the way they interpret the statutes. Their interpretation says they're right, but they still end up in jail when they test it.

Posted 5 months ago #
pez

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FSonicSmith said:
No doubt. Sorry. I'll accept the blame.

I started to respond to your post stating that it is the "open container provision" and is inapplicable and that carrying in a closed bottle of wine into a private restaurant can't possibly fall under that provision, but then I thought about it some more and now I don't know. I still think I am right, that it does not apply-since when is having a glass of wine in a restaurant an open-container situation-, but perhaps the exception provision you quoted at the end is the provision the DoLC cites to as being controlling of the issue and perhaps they could prevail both at the administrative level and in the Courts with that.

I think the open container is the crux of the rule. I was at a Christmas party last weekend at a bar where people exchanged bottles of liquor and wine as gifts, we were asked not to open them, but we could bring them in.

Even if there is ambiguity in the word of the law, I would think after the ODLC's enforcement tactics under the Taft administration, I'd be paranoid as hell with a liquor license.

Posted 5 months ago #
Chris Sherman
East Franklinton
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From a liquor control agents mouth "byob is strictly prohibited in permitted and non permitted establishments. Byob in any public or large private setting is illegal and the person or persons facilitating can be charged with keeper of place an undisclosed misdemeanor ranging from An m5 to m1. Permitted establishments can have their license sanctioned aswell." i asked that question personally during a training session and that was the answer regarding byob. The man had a badge, handcuffs, a gun and the ability to arrest and charge. I trust his answer.

Posted 5 months ago #
meltsintowonder

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License holders also worry because The Division will create crazy, uncommon scenarios to cite the license holders for these gray areas or situations pretty far away from legitimately serving people who are not 21 years old. Manipulative and very anti-business.

Posted 5 months ago #
Grizzly

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Chris Sherman said:
From a liquor control agents mouth "byob is strictly prohibited in permitted and non permitted establishments. Byob in any public or large private setting is illegal and the person or persons facilitating can be charged with keeper of place an undisclosed misdemeanor ranging from An m5 to m1. Permitted establishments can have their license sanctioned aswell." i asked that question personally during a training session and that was the answer regarding byob. The man had a badge, handcuffs, a gun and the ability to arrest and charge. I trust his answer.

I'm inclined to give a lot of weight to the agent as well, but then why did he mention non-permitted establishments? I'm new to the nebulous "BYOB" but generally it means you bring unopened alcohol to a business and then drink it there, and perhaps the business charges a fee for certain services (corkage, mixers, etc), right? How does that affect a non-permitted establishment? If the place isn't selling alcohol, then it doesn't need a liquor permit, right? And "keeper of the place" is I think ORC 4399.09, which only refers to places "where beer or intoxicating liquors are sold, furnished, or given away in violation of law". Looks like the agent thinks "keeper of place" applies to nonpermitted establishments (oh but only LARGE ones of course?), but if 4399.09 does, then holy cow it REALLY seems to be begging the question. I'm still not convinced.

Posted 4 months ago #
FSonicSmith
Columbus-downtown for work, East for the residence
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That the DoLC says that BYOB is illegal in Ohio is a given. Get past that, please.
Having a gun and a badge does not make you right. Where are liquor control agents on the Peace Officer totem pole-one step above meter maids, building security, and dog catchers?
DTown hit the nail on the head. Right or wrong, no sane permit holder would want to undertake the expense and pain of battling the DoLC through the courts, particularly since there are some provisions that could very well be interpreted in the State's favor.
In Chicago, NYC, and San Fran, where BYOB is permitted, only a small fraction of restaurants welcome BYOB. So the battle, if we were to call it that, is less worth fighting for that reason too.
I'm not particularly frustrated by all of this-there are not that many restaurants here in Columbus where I find myself wishing I could bring my own bottle. What is frustrating is how antiquated, backward and frankly corrupt, through many years of lobbying, Ohio's framework of liquor laws are. The distributors did the lobbying, and continue their lobbying and they have never been called out. Forget BYOB, do you folks realize that in Ohio we pay 10-20% more for every bottle of wine than most other States' citizens?

Posted 4 months ago #
Snarf
Dystopia
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Why can't I sit down and enjoy a fine wild berry MD 20/20 with my Big Mac? This is some bullshit, for real.

Posted 4 months ago #
DTown
Discovery District South
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Snarf said:
Why can't I sit down and enjoy a fine wild berry MD 20/20 with my Big Mac? This is some bullshit, for real.

Don't worry, no one's going to look in your brown paper bag. Have another french fry.

Posted 4 months ago #
meltsintowonder

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Yes, the liquor laws are antiquated, with some dating back to the 21st Amendment.

Speaking of the agents, they're getting more active and I'm aware of several license holders getting busted over the holiday season with ridiculous scenarios during the busiest time of the year. Aggravating.

When you refer to the lobbyists, one of the most obvious points of impact is license costs. If you want to brew beer, it's $4000/yr. If you want to make wine, it's under $100/yr. And before this last year, the brewer had to spend another $4000 to share the product with customers on-site. InBev or InBed? They understand that the craft beer movement is slowly taking market share where local wine isn't much of a concern for numerous reasons.

Posted 4 months ago #
Mister Shifter
Lewis Center
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meltsintowonder said:
Yes, the liquor laws are antiquated, with some dating back to the 21st Amendment.

Speaking of the agents, they're getting more active and I'm aware of several license holders getting busted over the holiday season with ridiculous scenarios during the busiest time of the year. Aggravating.

When you refer to the lobbyists, one of the most obvious points of impact is license costs. If you want to brew beer, it's $4000/yr. If you want to make wine, it's under $100/yr. And before this last year, the brewer had to spend another $4000 to share the product with customers on-site. InBev or InBed? They understand that the craft beer movement is slowly taking market share where local wine isn't much of a concern for numerous reasons.

I recommend that anyone watch the documentary Beer Wars if you haven't already. It's streaming on Netflix.

Shows you how the deck is stacked against craft breweries and the like.

Get the Video Plugin

Posted 4 months ago #
GCrites80s
5xNW
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I wonder if the Puritans realized the profit potential that lurked within their labyrinthine alcohol laws.

Posted 4 months ago #
HighLife
Grandview
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Speaking of arcane liquor laws, has anyone encountered a cashier that absolutely INSISTS on putting alcoholic beverages in a bag? I've had this happen a couple times at different places; most recently at the new Giant Eagle liquor store on 5th Ave. in Grandview. I was purchasing a 12-pack of beer, and the cashier told me she was required to put the whole cardboard box into a plastic grocery bag, which was a bit ridiculous. I've purchased beer hundreds of times elsewhere (including the Giant Eagle itself) and never run into this before. Anyone know why this is?

Posted 4 months ago #
GCrites80s
5xNW
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A child might see you carrying beer and become an alcoholic on the spot. And people will stop going to church.

Posted 4 months ago #
meltsintowonder

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HighLife said:
Speaking of arcane liquor laws, has anyone encountered a cashier that absolutely INSISTS on putting alcoholic beverages in a bag? I've had this happen a couple times at different places; most recently at the new Giant Eagle liquor store on 5th Ave. in Grandview. I was purchasing a 12-pack of beer, and the cashier told me she was required to put the whole cardboard box into a plastic grocery bag, which was a bit ridiculous. I've purchased beer hundreds of times elsewhere (including the Giant Eagle itself) and never run into this before. Anyone know why this is?

As long as the original container is sealed, I don't think it's required to put into a bag. Or maybe there's some ridiculous law about making sure people don't see you carrying alcohol around town? I don't think a bag is necessary. Maybe a requirement by the stores but not a law?

Posted 4 months ago #
0Angle
Home-Northwood Park, Breweries-43215
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When I take reusable bags to Weiland's I'm told to make sure I keep my liquor in it. I don't think anyone has SEEN me open a bottle and start chugging while I continue to shop..

Posted 4 months ago #