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BP Protest Thursday, June 17th 2010

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  • #379066

    JonMyers
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    pilsner wrote >>

    JonMyers wrote >>

    pilsner wrote >>
    How about getting money out of politics?

    Seriously, what isn’t about the money?
    When someone says it isn’t about the money I run for the door.

    Guess you’re right. It’s best to let the billionaires, Wall Street bank execs and oil company CEOs to keep running the place. I’m sure it will work out for the best with enough prayer and thoughts that America is always making progress ;-)

    Well, I don’t pray and *gasp* I don’t even believe in god.

    I build businesses. Most have failed. Some have succeeded.

    I was raised with serious disadvantages, others have had more (ethnicity, physical, and economic challenges) and others were born into serious advantages. I still manage to “do things”.

    If you want to hustle and do something, it’s there for the taking and yes, you can take on the billionaires.

    The problem is most people don’t want to hustle or execute. They think the value of their contribution is in the idea, which is usually poached and watered down in the first place.

    “They did this in DC, let’s do our version of it here.”

    This protest is emblematic of the idea condition that exists. Ideas are excuses for not executing and NO standing around with a sign is not executing.

    The only way you’re going to create change is to innovate and the most foreseeable, powerful way you’re EVER going to create game changing innovations in this century is through the marketplace.

    There is not a more powerful mechanism. That’s the playing field and you can play the game, without – playing the game.

    And yes as you can tell, I am idealistic and naive enough to think entrepreneurship is the way out of this situation. Not a mindless, unstable uprising, where once again you’re asking SOMEONE ELSE to do something, rather than do it your damn self.

    In the end this approach of protesting and “asking” contributes even less value to society.

    So my advice to you is that if you are really that pissed off, if you really want to “do something”, if you really want “change and progress” is to take up entrepreneurship and start something.

    Solve a problem.

    Don’t not create one that won’t achieve the result you say you desire.

    God forbid you solve a problem and have one less thing, one less cause to crack those atoms on. The issue of course, is that takes work.

    Scholarly pseudo-intellectual jerking off with a cut here and a paste there from the New York Times isn’t going to solve shit.

    #379067
    rus
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    @Jon:

    #379068
    rus
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    @Jon:

    #379069
    gramarye
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    JonMyers +1.

    Also, I can’t believe the level of denial in which pilsner lives with respect to the near-certain consequences of his actions, even if he could play dictator for a day and impose them on the country.

    He wants to get money out of politics, but also have the government play a tremendously larger role in the economy. Those two goals are anathema. If federal agencies have the authority to make decisions that will affect the economy to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars, then there will be lobbying and money in politics because no player in a given industry could ignore the fact that one ill-advised move from regulatory zealots in Washington could annihilate their company–or save it. Similarly, if there is to be trillions in direct spending, or mandated spending (which might almost as well be direct spending, it’s just that the government is directly spending others’ money rather than taking title to it for a short time first via taxation) on health care, then you had better believe that the health care industry will be flooding D.C. with money; how could they do otherwise? Everyone will want to make sure they get a piece of the massive federal pie–or at least that they aren’t going to be carved up to be baked into that pie. The greater the power of the government is, the greater the value of having connections within it, and therefore the more money a rational company will be willing to spend to develop them.

    If the federal government spent only 12% of GDP and could not regulate all commerce under the cumulative effects doctrine (i.e., if commerce had to be genuinely interstate before it were subject to federal regulation), you would see money flee Washington like rats from a sinking ship. It’s not worth paying millions for access to legislators and regulators if those officials can’t actually do all that much. With the power wielded by the federal government today, however, legislative and regulatory access is an investment that is very cost-effective for many businesses. Pilsner would only make that worse.

    #379070

    JonMyers
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    Gram, I know we often disagree on here, but I mostly agree with your sentiment on regulation. We’re likely to see a disproportionate reaction, which will still not reduce our petroleum consumption, nor will it reduce the risks of deep sea drilling.

    That’s what burns me up on Pilsner, it feels like he is somehow positioning himself as a victim when the problem is our lifestyle.

    BP is just one of our many petroleum pimps. We’re the addicts consuming as much as we can and demanding that we get it for next to nothing, with no regard to the consequences of this unsustainable lifestyle.

    #379071

    JonMyers
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    Gram, I know we often disagree on here, but I mostly agree with your sentiment on regulation. We’re likely to see a disproportionate reaction, which will still not reduce our petroleum consumption, nor will it reduce the risks of deep sea drilling.

    That’s what burns me up on Pilsner, it feels like he is somehow positioning himself as a victim when the problem is our lifestyle.

    BP is just one of our many petroleum pimps. We’re the addicts consuming as much as we can and demanding that we get it for next to nothing, with no regard to the consequences of this unsustainable lifestyle.

    #379072

    JonMyers
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    Gram, I know we often disagree on here, but I mostly agree with your sentiment on regulation. We’re likely to see a disproportionate reaction, which will still not reduce our petroleum consumption, nor will it reduce the risks of deep sea drilling.

    That’s what burns me up on Pilsner, it feels like he is somehow positioning himself as a victim when the problem is our lifestyle.

    BP is just one of our many petroleum pimps. We’re the addicts consuming as much as we can and demanding that we get it for next to nothing, with no regard to the consequences of this unsustainable lifestyle.

    #379073

    pilsner
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    Jon,

    I’m not opposed to innovation and but what you don’t understand is that deregulation keeps entrepeneurs out of the marketplace. Try starting a company to take on Microsoft.

    Government is the soil of the marketplace. Without good government acting as watchdogs you get walruses mentioned in a Gulf of Mexico oil Spill Response Plan. Without good government breaking up trusts you get oligarchy.

    The end product of just relying on the marketplace is feudalism— company towns with company stores.

    There are a couple hundred global mega-corporations that do not have the common good in mind. The executives and top investors of BP and Goldman Sachs have made themselves into billionaires by corrupting the political system in their favor and by keeping innovation out of the marketplace.

    #379074

    JonMyers
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    pilsner wrote >>
    Jon,
    I’m not opposed to innovation and but what you don’t understand is that deregulation keeps entrepeneurs out of the marketplace. Try starting a company to take on Microsoft.

    Apple just passed Microsoft in market cap. It wasn’t always that way. Innovations and the paradigms they introduce change:

    http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/26/apple-microsoft-market-cap-2/

    #379075
    rus
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    JonMyers wrote >>

    pilsner wrote >>
    Jon,
    I’m not opposed to innovation and but what you don’t understand is that deregulation keeps entrepeneurs out of the marketplace. Try starting a company to take on Microsoft.

    Apple just passed Microsoft in market cap. It wasn’t always that way. Innovations and the paradigms they introduce change:

    http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/26/apple-microsoft-market-cap-2/

    Not to mention linux… sure, not a company per say, but it’s gone from a geeky hobby OS to what you run mission critical systems on.

    #379076

    pez
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    JonMyers wrote >>

    pilsner wrote >>
    Jon,
    I’m not opposed to innovation and but what you don’t understand is that deregulation keeps entrepeneurs out of the marketplace. Try starting a company to take on Microsoft.

    Apple just passed Microsoft in market cap. It wasn’t always that way. Innovations and the paradigms they introduce change:

    http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/26/apple-microsoft-market-cap-2/

    Pilsner throughout the years:
    (1920) – “Try starting a company to take on Sears and Roebuck”
    (1930) – “Try starting a company to take on Kodak”
    (1950) – “Try starting a company to take on IBM”
    (1970) – “Try starting a company to take on General Motors”
    (1980) – “Try starting a company to take on Pan Am”

    As for Microsoft: Intuit, Adobe, Oracle, IBM and Apple all do very well. Sheer size and inability to react to the market will cut Microsoft, Walmart, et. al. down to size, just like everyone else.

    #379077
    gramarye
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    pez wrote >>

    JonMyers wrote >>

    pilsner wrote >>
    Jon,
    I’m not opposed to innovation and but what you don’t understand is that deregulation keeps entrepeneurs out of the marketplace. Try starting a company to take on Microsoft.

    Apple just passed Microsoft in market cap. It wasn’t always that way. Innovations and the paradigms they introduce change:

    http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/26/apple-microsoft-market-cap-2/

    Pilsner throughout the years:
    (1920) – “Try starting a company to take on Sears and Roebuck”
    (1930) – “Try starting a company to take on Kodak”
    (1950) – “Try starting a company to take on IBM”
    (1970) – “Try starting a company to take on General Motors”
    (1980) – “Try starting a company to take on Pan Am”
    As for Microsoft: Intuit, Adobe, Oracle, IBM and Apple all do very well. Sheer size and inability to react to the market will cut Microsoft, Walmart, et. al. down to size, just like everyone else.

    pilsner’s screed is dated at this point. The IT sector is one of the most viciously competitive in the entire economy.

    #379078

    JonMyers
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    Great, great points on technology.

    Maybe Pilsner’s stuck in that era (that’s passed) where Microsoft is the great satan?

    Rus, agreed the open source movement is a great example of “hacking the system”.

    Imagine if the protest goon squad applied open source principles to organizing and “hacking petroleum dependency”.

    #379079
    rus
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    JonMyers wrote >>
    Great, great points on technology.
    Maybe Pilsner’s stuck in that era (that’s passed) where Microsoft is the great satan?
    Rus, agreed the open source movement is a great example of “hacking the system”. Imagine if the protest goon squad applied those principles to organizing and “hacking petroleum dependency”.

    Indeed. In some ways, the biodiesel crowd has done exactly that.

    #379080
    lifeliberty
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    there’s a pretty good article today in the Other Paper regarding boycotting BP.

    Pissed off at BP?

    Just stop driving, say local BP oil tycoons. Just please don’t stop buying Slurpies.
    BY LYNDSEY TETER
    Published: Thursday, June 17, 2010 9:38 AM EDT

    http://theotherpaper.com/articles/2010/06/17/cover_story/doc4c1a1ee5a4f0c657369461.txt

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