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Bike Lanes in the Hilltop but none on High St?

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Started 2 years ago by Coley
Latest reply from Twixlen

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lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Metroman10 wrote >>
Lifeontowwheels if you live in suburia why should you shove the bike plan on us when it will keep the business district from becoming viable again. Its just out siders wanting to shove there agenda down our throats.
Why dont you push for the bike lane in your neighborhood.

Read my comments:

Judging by the comments I have seen so far, it might not be a good idea to dismiss the local business owner's perspective. Hopefully this doesn't take two steps back in making the Hilltop and westside more accessible overall.

And don't put words in my mouth. I don't think anywhere in this thread I've made any comment about trying to "shove" the bike lane onto the residents.

I'm coming back to Columbus ASAP, the economy isn't doing it for at the moment so I'm living at home until I finish my degree. I'm a proponent of making the Central Ohio region more accesible to cyclists and pedestrians but not at the expense of ALL the residents of a particular neighborhood, including the businesses.

The various plans I have seen, both the bikeways plan, the Hilltop Mobility Plan and several of the overlays and charette all seem to have the basic goal of making the area more accesible. All just seem to be talking past each other in their attempt to do it. As Matthew said above, compromise.

Posted 2 years ago #
misskitty
Columbus
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cowtownmex wrote >>
I just don't understand why the City of Columbus would pay a
firm to design the Highland West District Charrette, only to
waste tax payer money to put in bike lanes. It's a good thing
that Mount Carmel Hospital is close by, because noone repsects
the speed limit. The speed limit is 45 going towards Franklington,
and people driving are going 50 to 55 mph.
http://development.columbus.gov/Asset/iu_files/PlanList/GHc_Highland_West_Visioning_Charrette.pdf
The proposed by bicycle lanes totally contradict the charrette.
The plan also proposes elimination of parking on the North Side,
where parking is already limited. None of the business owners were notified.

I am about 99% sure the only place that has a 45mph limit is in between Wilson rd and Norton.
In franklinton I do believe it's 30 and only gets to 35 on the Hilltop.

Posted 2 years ago #
sik

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The bike lane recommendation through the Hilltop commercial corridor is made in the spirit of the Highland West Visioning Charrette. The Hilltop Community Mobility Plan has included participants from that important exercise, and street bulbouts around parking are recommended in a future phase of implementation. The Highland West Visioning Charrette puts forth a vision of a more pedestrian-friendly environment and a bustling business district. We believe that the recommendation of parking on one side of the road and bike lanes on both sides will provide an amenity that will assist in creating the distinct, vibrant business district that the Charrette imagines.

Here are some quotes from others in Highland West who are in favor of bike lanes on W Broad St:
Ã¢â‚¬Å“So many people are riding bikes instead of driving as a cheaper means of transport.Ã¢â‚¬Â Ã¢â‚¬â€œ near Columbian/Sullivant
Ã¢â‚¬Å“Everyone needs a place, and bikes are cleaner for our environmentÃ¢â‚¬Â Ã¢â‚¬â€œ near Terrace/Olive
"The potential for dual bike lanes on West Broad - we think that would be great for the area." - Highland West business owner
A few blocks away in adjacent Hilltop neighborhoods:
Ã¢â‚¬Å“I think that creating bike lanes will encourage more bikes to travel to work and other places. It may also increase the foot traffic by slowing down the [car] traffic. This may also bring new businesses to the area, like coffee shops, bike shops, galleries or eateries.Ã¢â‚¬Â Ã¢â‚¬â€œ near Binns/Sullivant
Ã¢â‚¬Å“Bike lanes would help create a more neighborhood friendly environment - something we are all striving for the West side to have.Ã¢â‚¬Â Ã¢â‚¬â€œ near Broad/Powhatan

Thank you for all of the good comments. The City has not made any decisions yet, and business owners and the public continue to be consulted.
Josh Sikich
TranSystems consultant team
Hilltop Community Mobility Plan

Posted 2 years ago #
Columbusite
Minneapolis
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Hey Josh,

First, you need to explain how bike lanes are safer than just riding your bike like a car.

Posted 2 years ago #
Metroman10
Highland West
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lifeonwheels you dont live in Highland West so how can you be for a plan that will hinder the revitilation of the area.
So yes you are trying to shove this down our throats.

Posted 2 years ago #
Metroman10
Highland West
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There is probably around 15,000 - 20,000 people living in the Highland West Area so how can 900 people be a majority of the area for the plan.

Posted 2 years ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Metroman10 wrote >>
lifeonwheels you dont live in Highland West so how can you be for a plan that will hinder the revitilation of the area.
So yes you are trying to shove this down our throats.

It's sad you can't comprehend my written words. Otherwise you would probably understand that I am more on your side than anything else.

The various plans that are listed here (HMP, Charette, etc.) all seem to have the basic idea of strengthening and improving the given area. I don't believe that I have endorsed any one plan here. Rather, I have looked at all of them and seen that they share common elements of creating a better streetscape and an environment conducive of revitalizing the area. I appreciate those who have been in touch with me and helped give me better insight from the neighborhood perspective. I'm wondering the same thing as many of the local residents that have posted, is there a compromise to be had?

Columbus, as a region, can not be fractured in it's development. We need to look at goals, like the bikeways plan, and find a way that those plans can take the wisdom and wishes of the given neighborhood into consideration for the best possible outcome as well as the consideration of regional connectivity.

Posted 2 years ago #
El Stonio
Location Location
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Even before I read this I knew someone would have the lame excuse of not enough room for bike lanes on High Street. That's bullcrap. I'm sure other feats of technological endeavor have overcome more difficult obstacles. Hmm, what about that turn lane that mostly takes up unused space??

Posted 2 years ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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El Stonio wrote >>
Even before I read this I knew someone would have the lame excuse of not enough room for bike lanes on High Street. That's bullcrap. I'm sure other feats of technological endeavor have overcome more difficult obstacles. Hmm, what about that turn lane that mostly takes up unused space??

It's actually not a lame excuse. I've referenced the Chicago Bike Lane Design Guide before [PDF file] and there are other sources. Minimum width is typically 4-5 feet, with I believe 5 being the preference. On urban roadways, width becomes an issue when you consider all that you typically need to accommodate on an urban roadway. You can look at the map I posted earlier that will give you a visual of the width on High Street.

And as business owners here have stated, you do need consideration for parking in the business district. It seems there is a lot of work still to be done to bring all sides to the table and work to build real consensus on improving the area. Pushing forward on any idea without a strong, positive consensus is a recipe for failure down the road.

ETA

AASHTO recommends some 4 foot widths, Chicago has a minimum of 5 feet

Posted 2 years ago #
johnwirtz
Evanston, IL
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Metroman10 wrote >>
900 people polled is totaly incorect and there are several thousand people that live in Highland West that were not polled.
Today was the frist that any of the business owners in tha area that heard of this. I have lived in Highland West for 26 years and I did not hear anything about this until last Thursday.
With the speed of the traffic and the glaring sun in the morning and after noon is an accident waiting to happen.
There is an overlay plan that was done for the business distict 2 years ago and the mobility plan will not work with the overlay. The overlay will make the area a better place to work and play and need to be funded as soon as possible.
So as for Josh and Kathy they are not for making Highland West a good place to live and play.

What are the conflicts between the mobility plan and the overlay plan? I'm confused by your stance since you seem opposed to reducing the number of lanes of trafic, but you're also angry about speeding.

Posted 2 years ago #
johnwirtz
Evanston, IL
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Josh,
The asymmetrical design is interesting. Are the eastbound volumes a lot lower than the westbound volumes? What are the peak design hourly volumes (DHV) for each direction?

Posted 2 years ago #
Metroman10
Highland West
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I feel once we can get the business district revitalized then we can talk about bike lanes and mobility plans. I order for Highland West to become revitalied we need to imporve the business district and the neighborhoods will follow.
Lifeontwowheels I invite you to the area to see what I am talking about and so you can get a better understanding of what the Highland West Neighbors Association is trying to do.

Posted 2 years ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Metroman10 wrote >>
I feel once we can get the business district revitalized then we can talk about bike lanes and mobility plans. I order for Highland West to become revitalied we need to imporve the business district and the neighborhoods will follow.
Lifeontwowheels I invite you to the area to see what I am talking about and so you can get a better understanding of what the Highland West Neighbors Association is trying to do.

I've been in touch with the HWNA and plan on attending one of the coming meetings. Just have to see when I am free.

I would make the counter argument that you can achieve both-improving the business district and adopting a mobility plan-at the same time as long as both goals are working towards the same end. Consider the meter issue and the rate increase. Wouldn't it be great to at least have other options before people write off an area based on the parking issue alone? And this is assuming that the advocates of the mobility plan are willing to work with the business owners to address their concerns rather than brush them aside with vague promises.

I can't speak for everyone but I know that for the time I was living and actively cycling in the heart of Columbus I was far more likely to patronize local businesses when I was walking, cycling or taking COTA because I didn't have to worry about parking or actually finding the business.

Posted 2 years ago #
johnwirtz
Evanston, IL
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Metroman10 wrote >>
I feel once we can get the business district revitalized then we can talk about bike lanes and mobility plans. I order for Highland West to become revitalied we need to imporve the business district and the neighborhoods will follow.
Lifeontwowheels I invite you to the area to see what I am talking about and so you can get a better understanding of what the Highland West Neighbors Association is trying to do.

You don't think the mobility plan can help speed the revitalization process?

Posted 2 years ago #
cowtownmex

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misskitty wrote >>

cowtownmex wrote >>
I just don't understand why the City of Columbus would pay a
firm to design the Highland West District Charrette, only to
waste tax payer money to put in bike lanes. It's a good thing
that Mount Carmel Hospital is close by, because noone repsects
the speed limit. The speed limit is 45 going towards Franklington,
and people driving are going 50 to 55 mph.
http://development.columbus.gov/Asset/iu_files/PlanList/GHc_Highland_West_Visioning_Charrette.pdf
The proposed by bicycle lanes totally contradict the charrette.
The plan also proposes elimination of parking on the North Side,
where parking is already limited. None of the business owners were notified.

I am about 99% sure the only place that has a 45mph limit is in between Wilson rd and Norton.
In franklinton I do believe it's 30 and only gets to 35 on the Hilltop.

It is if you driving just past fire station # 17 going towards downtown.

Posted 2 years ago #
cowtownmex

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Seems like no compromise to me according to this quote I just found on the internet: "We encourage you to support the option that recommends bike lanes on BOTH sides of Broad St. Obviously, this is a critical east-west corridor to provide safe accomodations for bicyclists. More importantly, the recommended "road diet" and addition of bike lanes will add to the livability and resurrection of this neighborhood."

I just love it how people who do not live in this area tend to make decisions for those who do.

Posted 2 years ago #
gingerlynn
Highland West
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cowtownmex wrote >>
Seems like no compromise to me according to this quote I just found on the internet: "We encourage you to support the option that recommends bike lanes on BOTH sides of Broad St. Obviously, this is a critical east-west corridor to provide safe accomodations for bicyclists. More importantly, the recommended "road diet" and addition of bike lanes will add to the livability and resurrection of this neighborhood."
I just love it how people who do not live in this area tend to make decisions for those who do.

Sounds like this is going to cause negative publicity for TranSystems, especially when the headlines read, "Bike lanes, destroy local businesses in the worst recession ever"

Posted 2 years ago #
gingerlynn
Highland West
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http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/2009/05/vernon-ave-bike-lane-hurting-businesses.html

Posted 2 years ago #
gingerlynn
Highland West
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Metroman10 wrote >>
lifeonwheels you dont live in Highland West so how can you be for a plan that will hinder the revitilation of the area.
So yes you are trying to shove this down our throats.

how are these 900 people? do they live in Highland West?

Posted 2 years ago #
gingerlynn
Highland West
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sik wrote >>
The bike lane recommendation through the Hilltop commercial corridor is made in the spirit of the Highland West Visioning Charrette. The Hilltop Community Mobility Plan has included participants from that important exercise, and street bulbouts around parking are recommended in a future phase of implementation. The Highland West Visioning Charrette puts forth a vision of a more pedestrian-friendly environment and a bustling business district. We believe that the recommendation of parking on one side of the road and bike lanes on both sides will provide an amenity that will assist in creating the distinct, vibrant business district that the Charrette imagines.
Here are some quotes from others in Highland West who are in favor of bike lanes on W Broad St:
Ã¢â‚¬Å“So many people are riding bikes instead of driving as a cheaper means of transport.Ã¢â‚¬Â Ã¢â‚¬â€œ near Columbian/Sullivant
Ã¢â‚¬Å“Everyone needs a place, and bikes are cleaner for our environmentÃ¢â‚¬Â Ã¢â‚¬â€œ near Terrace/Olive
"The potential for dual bike lanes on West Broad - we think that would be great for the area." - Highland West business owner[i]
A few blocks away in adjacent Hilltop neighborhoods:
Ã¢â‚¬Å“I think that creating bike lanes will encourage more bikes to travel to work and other places. It may also increase the foot traffic by slowing down the [car] traffic. This may also bring new businesses to the area, like coffee shops, bike shops, galleries or eateries.Ã¢â‚¬Â Ã¢â‚¬â€œ near Binns/Sullivant
Ã¢â‚¬Å“Bike lanes would help create a more neighborhood friendly environment - something we are all striving for the West side to have.Ã¢â‚¬Â Ã¢â‚¬â€œ near Broad/Powhatan
Thank you for all of the good comments. The City has not made any decisions yet, and business owners and the public continue to be consulted.
Josh Sikich
TranSystems consultant team
Hilltop Community Mobility Plan

Really Josh?! was the owner aware/told that the plan was to take away their parking? if they were, I'm sure that they would have a difference in opinion.

Here is a quote from the West Side Messenger: "I think what weÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re offering is what people want,Ã¢â‚¬Â said Sikich, who said he had spoken to many residents but had not questioned business owners."

Posted 2 years ago #