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YouTubeLooks like the walking tour with the Transportation and Pedestrian Commission is back on. I'm waiting to get the details but it sounds like it's this Thursday.
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Transit
Bike Lanes in the Hilltop but none on High St?
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lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Posted 2 years ago # -
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Looks like there will be 3 new meetings to discuss the issue:
Hilltop Public Meeting
Thursday, May 6
6:00 p.m.
Columbus West Family and Wellness Center
Community Meeting Room
2300 West Broad Street (Corner of West Broad Street and Wheatland Avenue)The Greater Hilltop Area Commission
Tuesday, May 11
7:00 p.m.
Hilltop Library
511 South Hague AvenueTransportation and Pedestrian Commission
Tuesday, May 18
5:00 p.m.
109 North Front
Ground Floor, Room 100Posted 1 year ago # -
Nancy Rhynard
far west
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Interesting.
and where, pray tell, did you receive information about a public meeting? I feel like the girl left out of the party.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Columbusite
Minneapolis
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I have to say that the most confusing aspect of this issue is that the neighborhood association worked with a local design firm on a vision for this portion of W Broad and then the city prominently displays it on their Dept. of Development website and on the city's official Hilltop Mobility Plan website. No bike lanes are included in either and anyone with experience in vehicular cycling knows they're not necessary. If we absolutely must have bike lanes and the city is going to install them regardless I suggest a compromise: Long Beach-style bike lanes. You get a color-coded bike lane and maintain on-street parking: win-win.
Get the Video Widget Posted 1 year ago # -
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Nancy Rhynard
far west
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The Highland West design done a few years back shows permanent parking both sides of W. Broad through the 0 setback commercial only, exactly as in Grandview or SN. There are some great options for BL's to be slightly redirected through the 0 setback commercial area only which is about .5 mile.
Posted 1 year ago # -
WestSIDEboy
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In the beginning we heard that the lanes were going to be on Sullivant Avenue and we were excited because that's pretty much in the middle of things in these parts. This would have been great because that's the street they are supposed to go on down in the bottoms, clear all the way to downtown. Broad is really far north so it just don't make much sense to ride over 1 mile north to get to the bike lane if your just going to have to go that same 1 mile south again at Central to get back to Sullivant. What a waste! Real stupid people! What I wanna know is when all this got changed? Whose dumb idea was this anyhow?
Posted 1 year ago # -
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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WestSIDEboy wrote >>
In the beginning we heard that the lanes were going to be on Sullivant Avenue and we were excited because that's pretty much in the middle of things in these parts. This would have been great because that's the street they are supposed to go on down in the bottoms, clear all the way to downtown. Broad is really far north so it just don't make much sense to ride over 1 mile north to get to the bike lane if your just going to have to go that same 1 mile south again at Central to get back to Sullivant. What a waste! Real stupid people! What I wanna know is when all this got changed? Whose dumb idea was this anyhow?The Bicentennial Bikeways Plan, or at least that's the simple answer. There is a small section that shows proposed bike lanes on the entire stretch of Broad, from 270 to 270. But there is no detail other than that map.
Personally I consider the BBP to be an anthology of available data that can serve as a guide to creating a more cycle friendly Columbus. There are some excellent suggestions included in the plan but the entire document is largely there to centralize available data and resources as we move forward. There are some in Columbus, including those on the original Hilltop Mobility team, who see the BBP as gospel for Columbus cycling. There can be no deviation from anything in there. Or at least that's the impression they create.
If you go back and read the studies done by GHAC regarding parking in the NCR, there is a clear need for it. Can you imagine selling this same proposal to Short North business owners? There is also historic precedent mentioned in these earlier parking studies for public-private partnerships. Essentially the city offered money for lot owners to fix and repair their surface lots on W. Broad in exchange for public parking. These agreements expired and to my knowledge where never explored or considered during the planning of the mobility plan or the bike lanes.
There were also a number of instances of misinformation to sell the project by identifying "public" off street parking. I took a tour with Nancy and other neighborhood leaders in December and was amazed to see what the reality on the street was compared to the parking map offered by the consultant.
Posted 1 year ago # -
TaraMC
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Here’s my question: Why does the biking community have information about this meeting, yet the neighborhood stakeholders do not?
The discussion with the Transportation and Pedestrian Committee thus far has centered only on one solution, bike lanes on West Broad. They have not taken into consideration other solutions the community has suggested, some of which Lifeontwowheels has previously suggested.
The community’s resistance to the bike lanes is actually a resistance to reduced parking in a neighborhood that is already struggling to succeed. I don’t see the city taking away parking to install bike lanes in other areas. Yes, we understand West Broad needs a “Road Dietâ€Â. We want to make the community welcoming to all transportation modes, including bicyclists. Why can’t we do that without taking away parking?
Posted 1 year ago # -
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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TaraMC wrote >>
Here’s my question: Why does the biking community have information about this meeting, yet the neighborhood stakeholders do not?
The discussion with the Transportation and Pedestrian Committee thus far has centered only on one solution, bike lanes on West Broad. They have not taken into consideration other solutions the community has suggested, some of which Lifeontwowheels has previously suggested.
The community’s resistance to the bike lanes is actually a resistance to reduced parking in a neighborhood that is already struggling to succeed. I don’t see the city taking away parking to install bike lanes in other areas. Yes, we understand West Broad needs a “Road Dietâ€Â. We want to make the community welcoming to all transportation modes, including bicyclists. Why can’t we do that without taking away parking?I think it's a very good question as to why neighborhood leaders aren't hearing of this first hand. Given some of the issues of late (parking meters) are we really surprised?
I have to say I have enjoyed meeting and listening to many of the residents and I see the same thing: they aren't anti-bike, they just want a solution to works best with their needs.
Posted 1 year ago # -
johnwirtz
Evanston, IL
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TaraMC wrote >>
Yes, we understand West Broad needs a “Road Dietâ€Â. We want to make the community welcoming to all transportation modes, including bicyclists. Why can’t we do that without taking away parking?I think you could. See my idea here:
http://xingcolumbus.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/hilltop-commission-votes-against-west-broad-bike-lanes/Posted 1 year ago # -
TaraMC
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johnwirtz wrote >>
TaraMC wrote >>
Yes, we understand West Broad needs a “Road Dietâ€Â. We want to make the community welcoming to all transportation modes, including bicyclists. Why can’t we do that without taking away parking?I think you could. See my idea here:
http://xingcolumbus.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/hilltop-commission-votes-against-west-broad-bike-lanes/I should clarify. The only solution the city seems to want to implement is to put in bike lanes by taking away parking. The community has tried to bring multiple solutions to the table but for some reason the city will not explore those options. I think most (you can't please everyone) would be happy with a solution like yours.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Matthew
Hilltop
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TaraMC wrote >>
johnwirtz wrote >>
TaraMC wrote >>
Yes, we understand West Broad needs a “Road Dietâ€Â. We want to make the community welcoming to all transportation modes, including bicyclists. Why can’t we do that without taking away parking?I think you could. See my idea here:
http://xingcolumbus.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/hilltop-commission-votes-against-west-broad-bike-lanes/I should clarify. The only solution the city seems to want to implement is to put in bike lanes by taking away parking. The community has tried to bring multiple solutions to the table but for some reason the city will not explore those options. I think most (you can't please everyone) would be happy with a solution like yours.
Tara to address your questions head on. Several of us are now certain that the whole point behind these bike lanes is to ensure that this neighborhood never turns around. This gives the city a dumping ground for a lot of the displaced units at Poindexter, etc. It sounds like a horrible thing to say, however when you look at what removing parking from a business district is going to do to revitalization it suddenly becomes a very real possibility.
Look at the facts here. All of our streets are one way and offset from each other. So by installing a center turn lane we are going to be causing people to have head on collisions in order to turn left. We are eliminating all east bound traffic except one lane, and we are eliminating all parking on one side. The icing on the cake is that we are running the rest of this bike lane on Sullivant except for these few blocks, as if any biker in their right mind is going to make that jog just for a few blocks only to jog back over to Sullivant.
What does that sound like to you? To me it sounds like an intentional attempt at destroying a business district before it has the chance to turn around. And to anyone who doesn't buy that, there is documented proof out there that Highand West Neighbors was intentionally left out of the last planning meeting by the city. Now that they know where Highland West stands they are attempting to shut us up by shutting our representatives out.
Posted 1 year ago # -
kcrissinger
Brookshire
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Matthew wrote >>
TaraMC wrote >>
johnwirtz wrote >>
TaraMC wrote >>
Yes, we understand West Broad needs a “Road Dietâ€Â. We want to make the community welcoming to all transportation modes, including bicyclists. Why can’t we do that without taking away parking?I think you could. See my idea here:
http://xingcolumbus.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/hilltop-commission-votes-against-west-broad-bike-lanes/I should clarify. The only solution the city seems to want to implement is to put in bike lanes by taking away parking. The community has tried to bring multiple solutions to the table but for some reason the city will not explore those options. I think most (you can't please everyone) would be happy with a solution like yours.
Tara to address your questions head on. Several of us are now certain that the whole point behind these bike lanes is to ensure that this neighborhood never turns around. This gives the city a dumping ground for a lot of the displaced units at Poindexter, etc. It sounds like a horrible thing to say, however when you look at what removing parking from a business district is going to do to revitalization it suddenly becomes a very real possibility.
Look at the facts here. All of our streets are one way and offset from each other. So by installing a center turn lane we are going to be causing people to have head on collisions in order to turn left. We are eliminating all east bound traffic except one lane, and we are eliminating all parking on one side. The icing on the cake is that we are running the rest of this bike lane on Sullivant except for these few blocks, as if any biker in their right mind is going to make that jog just for a few blocks only to jog back over to Sullivant.
What does that sound like to you? To me it sounds like an intentional attempt at destroying a business district before it has the chance to turn around. And to anyone who doesn't buy that, there is documented proof out there that Highand West Neighbors was intentionally left out of the last planning meeting by the city. Now that they know where Highland West stands they are attempting to shut us up by shutting our representatives out.Matt,
You just may be right. The west side has been the poster child for dumping ground since our current administration took office.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Matthew
Hilltop
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Take a look at Nancy Rhynard's comment above. Here you have a person who is on the Hilltop Business Association and she's getting the information about these public meetings 2nd hand along with Highland West. How is that for a glaring indicator of what is going on.
Posted 1 year ago # -
kcrissinger
Brookshire
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Matthew wrote >>
Take a look at Nancy Rhynard's comment above. Here you have a person who is on the Hilltop Business Association and she's getting the information about these public meetings 2nd hand along with Highland West. How is that for a glaring indicator of what is going on.Where is Mike Mentel, a westside guy and Bishop Ready graduate? We need to get on him about this.
Posted 1 year ago # -
johnwirtz
Evanston, IL
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I don't want to address the conspiracy theory you put forth, but I do want to say that center turn lanes are a huge safety improvement. If I recall correctly, there is a 25% crash reduction factor for rear end, sideswipe, and turning collisions.
Also, I don't think that Broad and Sullivant are intended to be linked as a single bike route. The Bicentennial Bike Plan map shows them as two separate and complete routes.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Matthew
Hilltop
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John you ignore (or perhaps are unaware of) the fact that all of our one ways are offset with North of Broad segments being one way in the opposite direction of South of Broad segments. So if I want to turn left on S Wayne while you want to turn left on N Wayne we are going to collide head on. Since you'll be heading east to turn north you may suddenly find yourself shooting back into the single traffic lane that we'll have heading east, in order to avoid a head on with me. So, what if there is someone next to you in that single traffic lane which is your only escape? Where will they go if they react to you coming into their lane? Either they collide with you or they go into the bike lane. Now we have an accident with the ONLY east bound and center lanes tied up, and/or a possible injured cyclist, which is honestly just a matter of time. Where is traffic going to go while this is cleared up?
These are the questions that the city/planners of this vehemently avoid. The response is always the same.
Think what you want of the "conspiracy theory." I wouldn't have put it out here if there wasn't evidence to back it up.
Posted 1 year ago # -
johnwirtz
Evanston, IL
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Matthew wrote >>
John you ignore (or perhaps are unaware of) the fact that all of our one ways are offset with North of Broad segments being one way in the opposite direction of South of Broad segments. So if I want to turn left on S Wayne while you want to turn left on N Wayne we are going to collide head on. Since you'll be heading east to turn north you may suddenly find yourself shooting back into the single traffic lane that we'll have heading east, in order to avoid a head on with me. So, what if there is someone next to you in that single traffic lane which is your only escape? Where will they go if they react to you coming into their lane? Either they collide with you or they go into the bike lane. Now we have an accident with the ONLY east bound and center lanes tied up, and/or a possible injured cyclist, which is honestly just a matter of time. Where is traffic going to go while this is cleared up?
These are the questions that the city/planners of this vehemently avoid. The response is always the same.
Think what you want of the "conspiracy theory." I wouldn't have put it out here if there wasn't evidence to back it up.It sounds like you're assuming it will be marked as a two-way left turn lane. I'm not sure what the city is planning, but I would install the pavement markings at each intersection with left-turn-only markings.
To use your example, there is 140' between the north and south legs of Wayne. I would probably mark a short 30' left turn lane at each street that just holds about two vehicles and connect the left turn lanes with a 80' long double-yellow line. It's not ideal by any means, but it's safe and should prevent head-on collisions.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Matthew
Hilltop
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I'm not assuming anything. I've been to all of the meetings.
Why is removing parking in a business district a better option than a "less than ideal" turn lane?
When what businesses are left on Broad start going out of business because their customers can't park, will you be here to offer support? Will the city? Or will everyone remind us that we need to handle our own neighborhood?
And don't say off street parking. We've been there and done that with walking tours. The property owners have unanimously said no to that farce.
edit: what's the point.
Posted 1 year ago #
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