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Babies in Bars (a no-no?)

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Started 1 year ago by Mister Shifter
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Mister Shifter
The Kingdom of Zamunda
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http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/03/02/brooklyn.babies.in.bars/index.html?hpt=C1

I thought this was an interesting article on CNN today. As a new parent I couldn't see myself bringing my baby to Surly Girl, Tip Top, & the like... even if I was just going for a bite to eat. I'd hate to make the people around me feel like they need to watch their mouths in a bar environment.

Added to this article or list should be nice restaurants. I took my wife out to dinner at Tucci's in Old Dublin a few weeks back. Nice place, dim lighting, dark woods, older crowd. The table directly next to me brought their toddler who was being completely obnoxious. I almost spit out my wine when the mother asked the server if they had some crayons and something for him to color on. I wish the server would've replied with something along the lines of "this isn't Bob Evans, ma'am." Well it practically ruined the dinner and any semblance of mood. I couldn't get out of there fast enough.

I should add, as a new parent I am TOTALLY sympathetic to other parents with fussy kids, but in the proper environment. Max & Erma's, El Vaquero, BW3's... loud restaurants that are kid friendly.

Posted 1 year ago #
Andrew Hall
Dennison Place (The Circles)
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Why should you worry about your language with respect to children as opposed to other people in general? What if you offend or upset adjoining adults?

The 'nice restaurant' hang up is very Midwestern. When we lived in NOLA, it was not unusual to see four generations at a table in the very best restaurantsand without comment. Ditto NYC where, most recently in my experience, Otto was the Chelsea ChuckeCheese.

I would add that obnoxious behavior is just that and not age-specific. I witness far worse from adults. And like adults, each child is different. Some can handle a three hour meal (with quiet diversions) and some can't. How does drawing with crayons alter your meal? Rather have that than a loud adjoining table or one with somone drenched in perfume or a myriad of other things that actually do affect me tangibly. A child drawing is no different than a fashion disaster patron - just don't look if it bothers you.

A lot is about expectations and training. If dining out is not an unusual experience, the child will usually do fine.

A.

Posted 1 year ago #
Mister Shifter
The Kingdom of Zamunda
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I don't think that it's a mystery that there's certain language, while not profane, is only for adults and probably isn't going to be offensive to most within earshot. Especially in a bar environment.

And I wouldn't have had a problem if the mother in Tucci's had brought crayons or something to occupy their toddler. I'm a rational human being. Expecting a fine dining establishment to have a "kiddie coloring page" is another. A restless kid climbing all over the chairs and booth next to you might leave you a little bitter when you're spending over $100 on dinner & drinks at 9pm.

Posted 1 year ago #
Mister Shifter
The Kingdom of Zamunda
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Andrew Hall wrote >>
A lot is about expectations and training. If dining out is not an unusual experience, the child will usually do fine.
A.

Very true.

Kudos to parents who teach their children how to behave in public. You're always going to have people to the contrary though, and pardon me, they can stick to Applebee's.

Posted 1 year ago #
KSquared
Literally Hell
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Mister Shifter wrote >>

Andrew Hall wrote >>
A lot is about expectations and training. If dining out is not an unusual experience, the child will usually do fine.
A.

Very true.
Kudos to parents who teach their children how to behave in public. You're always going to have people to the contrary though, and pardon me, they can stick to Applebee's.

I started taking my now teenager out to eat when she was very young. I agree with Andrew, I think the child will grow accustomed to your expectations. I've always been able to take my child just about anywhere and she was receiving compliments from servers in nice restaurants at a pretty young age and it was really nice to not have to limit our choices to "kid friendly" places. Personally, I think Tip Top and Surly Girl and lots of other places are just fine for kids as long as the parents have some sense.

Posted 1 year ago #
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What about children in bars? I am not talking about bar/restaurants I am talking about bars. I have seen people bringing 8 year olds who hang around while their parents socialize. I personally think there are better places for children.

Posted 1 year ago #
Mister Shifter
The Kingdom of Zamunda
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Yes, the conversation got a bit split. The news article is specifically about children/babies in bars.

Posted 1 year ago #
asil
Clintonville
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KSquared wrote >>

Mister Shifter wrote >>

Andrew Hall wrote >>
A lot is about expectations and training. If dining out is not an unusual experience, the child will usually do fine.
A.

Very true.
Kudos to parents who teach their children how to behave in public. You're always going to have people to the contrary though, and pardon me, they can stick to Applebee's.

I started taking my now teenager out to eat when she was very young. I agree with Andrew, I think the child will grow accustomed to your expectations. I've always been able to take my child just about anywhere and she was receiving compliments from servers in nice restaurants at a pretty young age and it was really nice to not have to limit our choices to "kid friendly" places. Personally, I think Tip Top and Surly Girl and lots of other places are just fine for kids as long as the parents have some sense.

Couldn't agree more. It's the parents responsibility to help their child learn how to act in public and how to eat in public, and it's the parent's responsibility to bring entertainment for them if they need it. Unfortunately that doesn't always happen and we've all seen THAT kid.

In addition to that I think there are a number of variables including time, place and space. I kind of consider Tip Top, Betty's, etc restaurants that serve beer. I would take my kid to dinner at Tip Top because there's more room (ie booths), not Betty's because it's smaller. It's just inconsiderate to have a giant baby carrier blocking the way for everyone.

Straight up bars are out of the question, IMO.

I can't say I'd take my kid to Tucci's. But I also don't feel like we need to be relegated to strip mall restaurants. Going out with your kid in tow to get sloshed is obviously wrong. But let's face it, as new parents we need a drink out every once in a while.

Posted 1 year ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Mister Shifter wrote >>
Yes, the conversation got a bit split. The news article is specifically about children/babies in bars.

It all depends on how you define "bars".

Posted 1 year ago #
mrsgeedeck
Castle of Lions
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I don't have children so I can't speak from experience, however, I go to bars to drink and hang out with friends. I can't imagine having a relaxing time with martini in hand while also watching out for/paying attention to a child. Drinking at home, fine; a glass of wine with dinner, cool; a nice restaurant, awesome; a bar...not so much.

Posted 1 year ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Mister Shifter wrote >>
As a new parent I couldn't see myself bringing my baby to Surly Girl, Tip Top, & the like... even if I was just going for a bite to eat. I'd hate to make the people around me feel like they need to watch their mouths in a bar environment.

There's absolutely no reason to think this way. I've taken our kiddo to Surly & Tip Top plenty of times for lunch and occasionally for an early dinner. If anyone feels uncomfortable around children, then that's their problem. Not yours.

Mister Shifter wrote >>
Added to this article or list should be nice restaurants.

We typically will go to dinner a bit earlier rather than later if we have our child in tow, partly for our own convenience and partly to be accommodating to others. He's generally pretty well behaved though, and the one and only reason for that is because he's used to going out. The kids that misbehave are the ones who aren't taught properly how to act in public.

Posted 1 year ago #
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A friend here is telling me that, in Ohio, if the bar does not serve food then underage children are not legally allowed. This seems to go against what I have seen, but does anyone know for sure?

eta:

looks like you need to be 18 years old for a non-food bar. I wonder if there is a bar that is willing to fight this 'ageism' like Zeno's war on the smoking ban.... :)

Posted 1 year ago #
Mister Shifter
The Kingdom of Zamunda
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Perhaps you're right Walker. Also, maybe some of my feelings will change as I start taking my son out more as he ages. He's only 3 months old now.

:)

Posted 1 year ago #
DCist
UA
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As a bartender who works in a BAR it is difficult to be accommodating to people with kids. I try my best and its not about making a moral/ethical/whatever judgment about parents and their kids. But, when I am walking with a tray of 10 beers and you let your kid run through the place, its pretty unnerving. I agree, if the kid is well behaved then whatever (if you are eating food). But propping your kid up on a barstool while you have a cocktail (a barstool that can be occupied by a PAYING, DRINKING customer) is pretty annoying from a business standpoint.

Posted 1 year ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Mister Shifter wrote >>
Perhaps you're right Walker. Also, maybe some of my feelings will change as I start taking my son out more as he ages. He's only 3 months old now.
:)

Honestly, I found it easy to take a little one out from age 0 to maybe 9 months because they were still portable! Desi's first night out was to a CU Meetup at Barcelona when he was 10 days old and he slept through the entire thing. ;)

Once they can start moving around a lot on their own, it's hard to make them sit still, and the high seats at places like Surly and Betty's don't work at all.

Once they hit 2 though, they start to do really well again just about anywhere. Desi loves Dirty Frank's, and I'll grab a cocktail during lunch there with him and don't think much of it. But I'd hardly endorse him being there to close the bar down on a Saturday night. ;)

Anyway, I think that article you posted up top is a bit on the extreme end of things, and most of the examples we're all discussing here are much different situations.

Posted 1 year ago #
sugarplumclarey

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Andrew Hall wrote >>
Why should you worry about your language with respect to children as opposed to other people in general? What if you offend or upset adjoining adults?
The 'nice restaurant' hang up is very Midwestern. When we lived in NOLA, it was not unusual to see four generations at a table in the very best restaurantsand without comment. Ditto NYC where, most recently in my experience, Otto was the Chelsea ChuckeCheese.
I would add that obnoxious behavior is just that and not age-specific. I witness far worse from adults. And like adults, each child is different. Some can handle a three hour meal (with quiet diversions) and some can't. How does drawing with crayons alter your meal? Rather have that than a loud adjoining table or one with somone drenched in perfume or a myriad of other things that actually do affect me tangibly. A child drawing is no different than a fashion disaster patron - just don't look if it bothers you.
A lot is about expectations and training. If dining out is not an unusual experience, the child will usually do fine.
A.

I'm with A on this one. In a lot of countries kids will fall asleep at the bars while their parents drink. It's not viewed as irresponsible; just how things work. I think outside the US children tend to be considered more of a community-wide responsibility. It's perfectly acceptable for an adult (non-parent) to verbally reprimand a misbehaving child in public. I think if a kid is acting like a sh!t you should tell the parents it's ruining your dinner and trust them to handle it, the same way you'd deal with an obnoxious adult.

Now children in smoking bars? To me that's pretty nasty!

Posted 1 year ago #
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sugarplumclarey wrote
Now children in smoking bars? To me that's pretty nasty!

I just got off the phone with Zeno's. The cribs come in on Monday.

Posted 1 year ago #
JonMyers
Ao Nang, Krabi, Thailand
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I don't have a problem with babies or children in bars, in some cases if there is a problem it would be with the parents of children.

Those would be the parents that expect you to adjust normally acceptable bar behavior to accommodate children.

I haven't experienced babies in bars in Columbus, but I have experienced it in other cities.

Posted 1 year ago #
J.R. Locke
Weinland Park
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Where I grew up bars were for families. You ate dinner and spent the night after a few drinks.

So. I think this is just another PC thang.

Posted 1 year ago #
rave_til_dawn
Dennison Place
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With a baby set to arrive in 2 months, I fully plan on hitting the Short North with her in tow. As mentioned above though, we definitely won't be closing any place down either, but I definitely see us hanging out on any 1 of the patios during the summer with her.

Last summer we saw a couple bring their baby to the Union patio for Happy Hour, and thought it looked funny, but we're totally going to be those people this summer.

Just because we're parents now, doesn't mean we have to drive to the burbs to hit up Applebee's or Chili's, right?!

Posted 1 year ago #