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no one's mentioned it yet, so maybe it doesn't engender the same passion in Columbus as elsewhere. IMHO, it's not all that different than some of the laws enacted in the south during the civil rights fight, embracing and glorifying the ugly.
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Politics
Arizona Immigration Law
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Bear
The woods
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Key provisions of Arizona's immigration legislation, signed into law by Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer on Friday:
_ Makes it a crime under state law to be in the country illegally by specifically requiring immigrants to have proof of their immigration status. Violations are a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a fine of up to $2,500. Repeat offenses would be a felony.
_ Requires police officers to "make a reasonable attempt" to determine the immigration status of a person if there is a "reasonable suspicion" that he or she is an illegal immigrant. Race, color or national origin may not be the only things considered in implementation. Exceptions can be made if the attempt would hinder an investigation.
_ Allow lawsuits against local or state government agencies that have policies that hinder enforcement of immigration laws. Would impose daily civil fines of $1,000-$5,000. There is pending follow-up legislation to halve the minimum to $500.
_ Targets hiring of illegal immigrants as day laborers by prohibiting people from stopping a vehicle on a road to offer employment and by prohibiting a person from getting into a stopped vehicle on a street to be hired for work if it impedes traffic.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Tenzo
Chicago Lakeshore
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Although it's easy to make statements on principal and ethics; I'm not sure we can completely understand or empathise how it feels to live in an area where 1 in 6 Hispanics are there illegally (ie breaking the law).
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/illegalaliens_1.jpg
It's also interesting that this measure is supported by some Hispanic Americans in Arizona. It's easy to go off the deep end and depict Arizona law enforcement as a bunch of good old white boys wearing white hoods.
Systems are breaking down. To pretend it's not happening and do nothing would also be irresponsible. To suspend civil liberties is a dangerous step, but the 'Patriot Act' suspended far more and I don't see a lot of people screaming about that.
Posted 3 years ago # -
gramarye
In Exile
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I actually have many more problems with the PATRIOT Act than with the new AZ law. The AZ law actually piggybacks off of federal law that has been in place for a while--AZ doesn't decide what is "being in the country illegally." Their government made a political decision that they needed to throw more of their own resources behind immigration enforcement because ICE's resources alone are insufficient to deal with the problem in AZ, which has become the primary point of entry for many illegal crossovers ever since California (with surprisingly little fanfare) managed to make its border substantially more secure (I deliberately linked to an article that took a more pro-illegal, anti-enforcement tone, FWIW).
Posted 3 years ago # -
kit444
Elsewhere
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roy wrote >>
berdawn wrote >>
...it's not all that different than some of the laws enacted in the south during the civil rights fight...How do you figure the American black civil rights struggles are related to people sneaking into another country unlawfully?
I think it's the being pulled over for being Hispanic nature of it. They can't tell that you're illegal on sight and they aren't going to be checking white people.
Posted 3 years ago # -
surber17
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I could care less who comes into the country, but I am on the side of doing it legally for the main reason of everyone should have to pay the same taxes as the next person. If you are going to use gov. provided hospitals/schools/roads/etc. you should have to pay your share. So I guess I'm ok with this law as long as the enforcement is closely watched.
Posted 3 years ago # -
JonMyers
HCMC, Vietnam ✈
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By the time I get to Arizona: http://tinysong.com/jqF5
Posted 3 years ago # -
shroud
Polaris
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Bear wrote >>
_ Requires police officers to "make a reasonable attempt" to determine the immigration status of a person if there is a "reasonable suspicion" that he or she is an illegal immigrant. Race, color or national origin may not be the only things considered in implementation. Exceptions can be made if the attempt would hinder an investigation.
_ Allow lawsuits against local or state government agencies that have policies that hinder enforcement of immigration laws. Would impose daily civil fines of $1,000-$5,000. There is pending follow-up legislation to halve the minimum to $500.These are the two that I've heard from this that worry me the most. The whole "reasonable suspicion" , COUPLED with the threat of litigation from folks with a bone to pick about immigrants seems like it could lead to some pretty police-state like enforcement of carding people & "citizen checkpoints".
Aside from that possible slippery slope, I don't really have a beef with people trying to enforce immigration laws.
Posted 3 years ago # -
spookygoddess78
Northland-ish
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kit444 wrote >>
roy wrote >>
berdawn wrote >>
...it's not all that different than some of the laws enacted in the south during the civil rights fight...How do you figure the American black civil rights struggles are related to people sneaking into another country unlawfully?
I think it's the being pulled over for being Hispanic nature of it. They can't tell that you're illegal on sight and they aren't going to be checking white people.
Agreed - the legislation is problematic. It gives police unprecedented powers to stop and interrogate anyone they suspect of being an illegal immigrant - basically, anyone who is hispanic. Also, all immigrants (legal immigrants) will be required to carry identity papers at all times - if they are stopped by police and do not have the papers to prove they are 'documented', they face arrest. It's a jacked up bill and will not at all address or solve the issues associated with illegal aliens in AZ.
Posted 3 years ago # -
berdawn
near that stretch of N. High Street in the Short North
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roy wrote >>
berdawn wrote >>
...it's not all that different than some of the laws enacted in the south during the civil rights fight...How do you figure the American black civil rights struggles are related to people sneaking into another country unlawfully?
I figure I was talking about the laws. The reason some southern civil rights era laws were enacted and the political environment in which they were created are similar: quite obviously, the targets are different (ordinances criminalizing housing non-residents or arrests for littering if workers distributed literature for example).
Posted 3 years ago # -
berdawn
near that stretch of N. High Street in the Short North
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Interesting essay from 2009:
http://americanindiansinchildrensliterature.blogspot.com/2009_06_09_archive.htmlPosted 3 years ago # -
Tenzo
Chicago Lakeshore
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Also, all immigrants (legal immigrants) will be required to carry identity papers at all times - if they are stopped by police and do not have the papers to prove they are 'documented', they face arrest.
Kind of like in Columbus; when you drive a car or buy a beer.
Posted 3 years ago # -
spookygoddess78
Northland-ish
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Tenzo wrote >>
Also, all immigrants (legal immigrants) will be required to carry identity papers at all times - if they are stopped by police and do not have the papers to prove they are 'documented', they face arrest.
Kind of like in Columbus; when you drive a car or buy a beer.I don't remember the last time I got arrested for trying to buy beer without my ID. I also don't remember the last time I was stopped on the street by a police officer because I'm white, and then was arrested because I didn't have my ID on me?
Posted 3 years ago # -
lj85
Northland Area
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Tenzo wrote >>
Also, all immigrants (legal immigrants) will be required to carry identity papers at all times - if they are stopped by police and do not have the papers to prove they are 'documented', they face arrest.
Kind of like in Columbus; when you drive a car or buy a beer.Buying a beer and driving a car are privileges. Walking down the street without being asked to prove your identity and immigration status is a right…for awhile at least.
Posted 3 years ago # -
kit444
Elsewhere
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Tenzo wrote >>
Also, all immigrants (legal immigrants) will be required to carry identity papers at all times - if they are stopped by police and do not have the papers to prove they are 'documented', they face arrest.
Kind of like in Columbus; when you drive a car or buy a beer.Not the same. No one is going to randomly stop you because they have a "reasonable suspicion" you might drive a car later in the day or buy a beer. You don't have to carry an ID unless you are doing one of those activities. Try to imagine walking down the street and a cop stopping you because of--and only because of--the color of your skin and demanding you prove you belong here or face arrest.
Posted 3 years ago # -
catnfiddle
Peeghaven
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JonMyers wrote >>
By the time I get to Arizona: http://tinysong.com/jqF5I'd give you bonus points if you could find the Evolution Control Committee's remix of this.
Posted 3 years ago #
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