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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/23/nancy-pelosi-food-truck-tour_n_1210899.html
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Development
Are Food Trucks Good for Downtown and/or Brick & Mortar Restaurants? Thoughts?
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lizless
Columbus/Hocking Hills
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100% good for revitalizing downtown Columbus.
I wish the City of Columbus Department of Public Service would lift the ban on allowing food trucks to be parked on the public roads downtown. There are miles of unused parking spots all over downtown on nights and weekends, including 3rd & 4th Streets, Mound Street, Main Street, Fulton, Long Street, Spring, etc. Obviously this wouldn't work in already heavily congested areas like Gay Street but there's blocks and blocks in dire need of some light and traffic. Right now, trucks are only allowed on private property.
Bringing more food trucks around Columbus Commons, Scioto Mile and other downtown destinations would bring safety, eyes on street, more people and vibrancy to downtown and complement the area. Right now, the more business downtown, the better.
A great example is how much Late Night Slice has helped the lonely block in the Short North. For many years, folks expressed fear walking at night from Betty's to Bodega or Surly Girl because that block in particular could be dark (it's not well lit) and intimidating. The opening of LNS has eliminated that problem entirely. Short North merchants lobbied for years to get more lighting on that block. One food business helped the problem just by opening it's doors (windows?). LNS is my favorite Short North spot at night, it's alive!
If a brick and morters (with bathrooms, seating, AC/heat, ambient music, ambient lighting, table service, etc)can't compete with a food truck, they should probably rework their business plans.
Posted 4 months ago # -
drew
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I could imagine a point at which food trucks were so thick on the ground that they'd take business away from bricks & mortar restaurants downtown, but Columbus is so far away from that point that it's not even worth discussing IMHO.
The big street food event at Columbus Commons this past summer reportedly brought 12,000 people downtown. Many of them opted to avoid the mobile food vendor lines and go to one of the restaurants open nearby instead. I'd never seen so many restaurants downtown booming on a weekend evening!
That is the effect we're looking for - providing more reasons for people to go downtown. It'd be to the benefit of all businesses in the area.
Posted 4 months ago # -
cbus11
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I would definitely be for opening up more of downtown and the SN to food trucks. It might be nice to have a few rotating trucks at Columbus Commons and even open up a space in the city owned lot* by Skully's. I think that Liz is dead on about B&M's.
* I think it would help foster some of these trucks (if they rotated) in a similar way that the North Market and Pearl Alley help small business. Having rotating exposure in the SN would help spread the word.
Posted 4 months ago # -
FoodFort
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cbus11 said:
I think it is great at the James, but it would be hard to beat evening foot traffic on High St.Absolutley agree - but trucks will set up where they are welcomed and keep going based on support from the community. We are looking for legal spots for trucks on High Street and look forward to working with the city on some legislative tweeks that are fair to small business owners - Food Trucks and Brick & Mortar establishments. The goals are the same - a fair playing field to grow a business and grow our communities.
Posted 4 months ago # -
cbus11
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I am not suggesting something unfair or illegal. Just use (for a fee) of a city owned spot (just one rotating truck) to highlight a growing area of small business. Basically it would be advertisement for this type of small business incubation. The city also owns the North Market building.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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drew said:
That is the effect we're looking for - providing more reasons for people to go downtown. It'd be to the benefit of all businesses in the area.Agreed. I don't think 12,000 people would be pulled Downtown on a weekly basis, but if a weekly food truck event could pull 2,000 people that would be a big boost, especially for Downtown businesses that serve alcohol and stay open a bit later for people who want to continue hanging out after dinner.
Posted 4 months ago # -
FoodFort
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Something new serves as a way to attract people to an old space or place. Think of the Gallery Hop - it is not just about Galleries (in fact galleries are less a part of the picture than they were in the beginning). The Hop was on thing that drew people to the Short North, which in turn lead to more businesses and more new people moving to the area. If food trucks can be one of several types of bait to draw people downtown - their will be spill over in other areas - including restaurants and other businesses.
Posted 4 months ago # -
CheeseFoodie
Harrison West
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Liz is spot-on as usual. I think there are more than enough opportunities for both trucks/pop-ups and the B&M businesses. One of my favorite nights last summer involved the food truck event at the Commons, then Milestone 229, and then jazz at the Scioto Mile to end the night, all via bicycle. There were so many folks downtown, it was great to see.
Posted 4 months ago # -
FoodFort
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Agreed. We just need to be safe about where trucks are set up to follow codes as well as to respects the needs of the community they are set. Would love the city to support a food pod in 2012.
cbus11 said:
I am not suggesting something unfair or illegal. Just use (for a fee) of a city owned spot (just one rotating truck) to highlight a growing area of small business. Basically it would be advertisement for this type of small business incubation. The city also owns the North Market building.Posted 4 months ago # -
Kardashalistic
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lizless said:
100% good for revitalizing downtown Columbus.I wish the City of Columbus Department of Public Service would lift the ban on allowing food trucks to be parked on the public roads downtown. There are miles of unused parking spots all over downtown on nights and weekends, including 3rd & 4th Streets, Mound Street, Main Street, Fulton, Long Street, Spring, etc. Obviously this wouldn't work in already heavily congested areas like Gay Street but there's blocks and blocks in dire need of some light and traffic. Right now, trucks are only allowed on private property.
Bringing more food trucks around Columbus Commons, Scioto Mile and other downtown destinations would bring safety, eyes on street, more people and vibrancy to downtown and complement the area. Right now, the more business downtown, the better.
A great example is how much Late Night Slice has helped the lonely block in the Short North. For many years, folks expressed fear walking at night from Betty's to Bodega or Surly Girl because that block in particular could be dark (it's not well lit) and intimidating. The opening of LNS has eliminated that problem entirely. Short North merchants lobbied for years to get more lighting on that block. One food business helped the problem just by opening it's doors (windows?). LNS is my favorite Short North spot at night, it's alive!
If a brick and morters (with bathrooms, seating, AC/heat, ambient music, ambient lighting, table service, etc)can't compete with a food truck, they should probably rework their business plans.
Couldn't disagree more. Your arguments are actually counter-intuitive. If someone is sitting in a bar, or working late at their office, or just has a hankering for a good hotdog, they are not going to get in their car and drive across town, let alone walk an extra 5 blocks when there are a half dozen food carts all over the sidewalk selling tasty greasy fare such as this, and for a cheap price. Now if you are selling filet mignon, I don't think you have to worry as much. But for brick & mortars selling lower priced food, these food carts pose significant competition.
As for your "the most businesses downtown, the better" comment I assume you would be referring to restaurants and bars. This only works if there is increased density, i.e. residents and employees. Otherwise you are fighting even harder for customers.
In addition, the way these food carts currently operate is near sheer lawlessness. They don't follow the same stringent health code restrictions imposed on B&M restaurants. I'd venture to say that 99% of them also accept only cash, which means they probably aren't paying their "fare share" come tax time. That is a drain on our tax base and the hundreds of small businesses in downtown Columbus you wish to praise.
Your double-entendre about the block of Short North being too "dark" is too funny.
A business is going to have a hard time competing if newer businesses don't have to play by the same rules.
Posted 4 months ago # -
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Kardashalistic said:
Couldn't disagree more. Your arguments are actually counter-intuitive. If someone is sitting in a bar, or working late at their office, or just has a hankering for a good hotdog, they are not going to get in their car and drive across town, let alone walk an extra 5 blocks when there are a half dozen food carts all over the sidewalk selling tasty greasy fare such as this, and for a cheap price. Now if you are selling filet mignon, I don't think you have to worry as much. But for brick & mortars selling lower priced food, these food carts pose significant competition.As for your "the most businesses downtown, the better" comment I assume you would be referring to restaurants and bars. This only works if there is increased density, i.e. residents and employees. Otherwise you are fighting even harder for customers.
In addition, the way these food carts currently operate is near sheer lawlessness. They don't follow the same stringent health code restrictions imposed on B&M restaurants. I'd venture to say that 99% of them also accept only cash, which means they probably aren't paying their "fare share" come tax time. That is a drain on our tax base and the hundreds of small businesses in downtown Columbus you wish to praise.
Your double-entendre about the block of Short North being too "dark" is too funny.
A business is going to have a hard time competing if newer businesses don't have to play by the same rules.
What rules are different? Food carts have to be inspected, pay permit fees and have to deal with variances in weather.
Posted 4 months ago # -
swansonguy
Harrison West
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lifeontwowheels said:
What rules are different? Food carts have to be inspected, pay permit fees and have to deal with variances in weather.I agree with Liz that food trucks, carts and fixed restaurants can thrive together. I also believe that we need some critical mass in certain areas to support both. A first step in creating some critical mass downtown will be for the city to change the crazy parking meter restrictions. Today our downtown is prepared for evacuation at 3pm. Years of tow away zones and ticketing have sent the message that hanging out after work is a risk.
With regard to the different rules: it is true that we all must go through inspections, licensing and permits. I think a better way to look at it is in terms of capital investment. A cart is less expensive than a truck and a truck is less expensive than a fixed location. Additionally the costs associated with mobile units versus fixed locations are very different. And to quote one of my favorite albums: "plus also too"-leases for fixed locations demand multi year commitments that mobile units do not require. What's cool about our town is that these conversations are taking place. I really think our business and most restaurants will benefit from the growth of the mobile restaurant scene.
Finally Kardashalistic - for the double entendre remark- sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.jeezPosted 4 months ago # -
ChrisSunami
King-Lincoln District
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Kardashalistic said:
Couldn't disagree more. Your arguments are actually counter-intuitive. If someone is sitting in a bar, or working late at their office, or just has a hankering for a good hotdog, they are not going to get in their car and drive across town, let alone walk an extra 5 blocks when there are a half dozen food carts all over the sidewalk selling tasty greasy fare such as this, and for a cheap price. Now if you are selling filet mignon, I don't think you have to worry as much. But for brick & mortars selling lower priced food, these food carts pose significant competition.Given that lizless is one of the most successful restauranteurs in Columbus, I'm guessing she knows what she's talking about. It doesn't seem like she's worried people won't come buy a hotdog at Dirty Frank's if they can grab a cheap dog right outside their door. I would imagine the argument is that people choose a restaurant for the atmosphere as well as the food.
I'm also quite sure she meant "dark" literally as in "not well lighted." Although I'd love to be "enlightened" as to what kind of joke you thought she was making.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Mister Shifter
Lewis Center
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I stopped reading when Kardashalistic accused Liz of making a racist remark. Ridiculous.
Posted 4 months ago # -
JonMyers
HCMC ✈
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Kardashalistic said:
Couldn't disagree more. Your arguments are actually counter-intuitive. If someone is sitting in a bar, or working late at their office, or just has a hankering for a good hotdog, they are not going to get in their car and drive across town, let alone walk an extra 5 blocks when there are a half dozen food carts all over the sidewalk selling tasty greasy fare such as this, and for a cheap price. Now if you are selling filet mignon, I don't think you have to worry as much. But for brick & mortars selling lower priced food, these food carts pose significant competition.As for your "the most businesses downtown, the better" comment I assume you would be referring to restaurants and bars. This only works if there is increased density, i.e. residents and employees. Otherwise you are fighting even harder for customers.
In addition, the way these food carts currently operate is near sheer lawlessness. They don't follow the same stringent health code restrictions imposed on B&M restaurants. I'd venture to say that 99% of them also accept only cash, which means they probably aren't paying their "fare share" come tax time. That is a drain on our tax base and the hundreds of small businesses in downtown Columbus you wish to praise.
Your double-entendre about the block of Short North being too "dark" is too funny.
A business is going to have a hard time competing if newer businesses don't have to play by the same rules.
I also agree with Liz (it helps everyone) and definitely agree with Mark on parking.
I've been eating street food once, and sometimes twice a day for the last few months here in SE Asia, in both small towns and big cities. There is a vibrant street food culture here that serves both operators and patrons well. The operators have a job and earn some money, and the patrons get a decent meal for cheap.
It's pretty amazing actually, creates energy on the streets, and yes, the restaurants here seem to survive.
Heck, you can even grab a cocktail from a truck on the street for a few bucks, which I've done. Many times :) - And...... I still go to bars and pay more even though this is pretty cool:
Aside from arcane and asinine liquor laws, this will never happen in the states because of the typical cries for over-regulating things, the feeling that we need to protect people from their own stupidity, and in this case we're just talking about food. Sheesh. I thought we were supposed to be the die-hard capitalists?
The anecdotes above are no apples to apples comparison, but one point is this - if a restaurant is only competing on "cheap" and can't compete with what you describe as the lowly little food truck these restaurants should rework their business plans as Liz said, or do everyone a favor and go out of business.
That's the beauty of the market in this case. You vote with your wallet and it often sorts out the crap.
Second, this is a form of economic empowerment (i.e. "jobs"). It's very inexpensive (relative to the alternatives) for someone with a passion to make and serve food to the public to get started with a food truck. It's one reason why you see immigrants who are unable to secure a more traditional job "creating their own job" and starting food trucks.
A vibrant street food scene is a huge draw to a city and would benefit Columbus. It could be the incubator for the next Jeni's or Pattycake (miss those treats) and serve as a catalyst for creating energy and density on the streets. There is no doubt this is a positive for brick and mortar restaurants as well.
Why anyone would oppose this type of innovation, and the basics of the street, which the market naturally sorts out is beyond me.
It seems simple. Let people vote with their wallets, let the best win.
Make it dead simple for the next generation of Jeni's and Pattycakes to flourish, have a positive impact on the city and be a leader in something obvious. People need to eat. Food trucks aren't a "trend".
Everyone wins except for the crappy restaurants that can't compete with a food truck, which isn't a bad thing.
Posted 4 months ago # -
cc
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Words like innovation, economic improvement, and just the overall benefit to the community of the food cart and truck phenomena are really hitting home. It is good to see restaurant owners embracing this idea.
I like the idea mentioned of allowing the city to rent a few parking spaces at well trafficked city property to spur exposure. Besides the SN lot and Columbus Commons I think maybe Goodale and Tuttle Park would also have some benefit.
I am excited to see what new trucks come online this year and have been encouraging my friends and coworkers to experience them.
Posted 4 months ago # -
cheap
Westgate
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JonMyers said:
Food trucks aren't a "trend".in this town,everything downtown is a trend.i can't wait until somebody starts giving rickshaw rides downtown.
this town is trying too hard to be another city,instead of creating it's own identity.
food trucks will come and go,just like so many restaurants and bars,once a new hip thing is discoverred somewhere else,and applied here.
Posted 4 months ago #
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