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This topic contains 73 replies, has 33 voices, and was last updated by News News 1 month, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #278126
    lisathewaitress
    lisathewaitress
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    Andrew Hall wrote >>

    turbo ninja wrote He also shared a PROTIP about wine: If in doubt, choose the heavier bottle. Vintners don’t waste good glass on cheap wine..

    Well, he was a pro about getting a tip from you …
    That is pure malarkey. Some of the most ostentatious producers who want to differentiate their product in crowded fields of sameness like California Cabernet will do this. There is no correlation between the bottle and the wine.
    This was just too far out of reality to pass with out comment.
    A.

    +1. If a winery is paying extra for “good glass,” you are paying more for the bottle, and not the wine. I am sure the people from Quintessa rely on people like your friend to buy their wine based upon the super cool bottle. Unfortunately, you are paying a premium for the bottle.

    But, we love Alana’s and try to get there at least 1-2 times a month.

    #278127

    michaelcoyote
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    lisathewaitress wrote >>

    Andrew Hall wrote >>

    That is pure malarkey. Some of the most ostentatious producers who want to differentiate their product in crowded fields of sameness like California Cabernet will do this. There is no correlation between the bottle and the wine.
    This was just too far out of reality to pass with out comment.
    A.

    +1. If a winery is paying extra for “good glass,” you are paying more for the bottle, and not the wine. I am sure the people from Quintessa rely on people like your friend to buy their wine based upon the super cool bottle. Unfortunately, you are paying a premium for the bottle.
    But, we love Alana’s and try to get there at least 1-2 times a month.

    Not a complaint, but it seems like the servers used to (7-8 years ago or so) know a lot more about the wines.. They now refer to a wine steward when pressed for more wine info.. Not really a complaint at all, just an observation..

    Still love Alana’s, still going next chance I get :-)

    #278128
    Andrew Hall
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    michaelcoyote wrote Not a complaint, but it seems like the servers used to (7-8 years ago or so) know a lot more about the wines.. They now refer to a wine steward when pressed for more wine info.. Not really a complaint at all, just an observation..
    Still love Alana’s, still going next chance I get :-)

    The servers haven’t changed – you have.

    You know more about wine compared to what you did 7-8 yrs ago. Your level of knowledge has increased relative to the typical server so it only appears they know less.

    A.

    #278129

    michaelcoyote
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    Andrew Hall wrote >>

    michaelcoyote wrote Not a complaint, but it seems like the servers used to (7-8 years ago or so) know a lot more about the wines.. They now refer to a wine steward when pressed for more wine info.. Not really a complaint at all, just an observation..
    Still love Alana’s, still going next chance I get :-)

    The servers haven’t changed – you have.
    You know more about wine compared to what you did 7-8 yrs ago. Your level of knowledge has increased relative to the typical server so it only appears they know less.
    A.

    I might buy this, but they hesitate on providing even a basic recommendation these days.. I’m no great oenophile, so usually this will suffice. Wondering if this is just proper front of house division of labour being enforced where it wasn’t before.. in any case I’ve no problems with the wine that has ever been recommended to me at Alana’s..

    #278130

    turbo ninja
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    Are you suggesting we were trying to choose from a “crowded field of sameness” at dinner last week? Unless Alana’s entire list falls under that same dismissive blanket statement, you have no idea what we were considering and I find your statement condescending at best.

    We happened to think it was a handy rule-of-thumb insight that can help a table full of indecisive diners, each with a different entree, to make a choice. If Categories A-X are tied and Category Z is relative quality of the bottle, guess what gets to be the tiebreaker?

    We also happened to think we had no reason to be suspicious or wary of our server, as if he were trying to move some stale inventory from the cellar like a used-car salesman. Good for the server if he sold us bottles that weren’t super-bargains for the quality. We ended up enjoying our selections and no one felt ripped off.

    Wine – and anything else – is worth what you’re willing to pay for it. Since we felt like we got our money’s worth, it is impossible for us to have overpaid. Even if we did, I don’t think repast choices should be determined by what’s the best value. Save that for laundry detergent and cell phone contracts.

    #278131
    Bear
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    turbo ninja wrote >>
    Are you suggesting we were trying to choose from a “crowded field of sameness” at dinner last week? Unless Alana’s entire list falls under that same dismissive blanket statement, you have no idea what we were considering and I find your statement condescending at best.
    We happened to think it was a handy rule-of-thumb insight that can help a table full of indecisive diners, each with a different entree, to make a choice. If Categories A-X are tied and Category Z is relative quality of the bottle, guess what gets to be the tiebreaker?
    … Since we felt like we got our money’s worth, it is impossible for us to have overpaid.

    Who knows — you might have been even happier with the wine in the thin-glass bottle that you were considering, right?

    I mean, it’s definitely a rule of thumb that helps people decide. But that’s not the question; the question is whether it’s a rule of thumb that helps them make the right choice, meaning that it helps them choose the wine that they’ll enjoy more. And if Lisa and Andrew are right, that in general there’s no correlation, then it won’t.

    I don’t think anyone’s claiming you were duped or ripped off, btw. For what it’s worth, I saw a lot of new faces on staff when I was there, perhaps due to increased summer activity. I’m guessing that — assuming that the thick-glass thing is a myth — it was passed along to you with the best of intentions.

    #278132
    Andrew Hall
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    I will state as a simple fact – there is no correlation between bottle and quality. (Nor is there a negative correlation.)

    You can ignore a pair (trio, if you count lisa’s husband who counts 2x in this discussion) of people with 30+ yrs collective experience in wine if you wish. I think you are needlessly defensive as neither of us said you should not have enjoyed the wine or that it was a bad wine. We are just telling you (and anyone reading) that this rule of thumb is baseless.

    Markets like Napa Cabernet are crowded fields of wines most of whom have relatively little intrinsic differentiation. Packaging and marketing are a way to stand out. That sameness can be at a relatively high quality level and it doesn’t mean you don’t have to be noticed somehow.

    I ran this by some people ITB and female winemakers referred to the big bottles as ‘overcompensation’

    A.

    PS – The wine list at at Alana’s is of uniformly high quality. That any wine you had was enjoyable is neither surprising nor proof of any selection algorithm (other than Kevin and Gideon’s).

    #278133

    berdawn
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    I don’t think the original post had anything to do with packaging or marketing, just the weight of the bottle of two similar wines.

    #278134
    Bear
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    berdawn wrote >>
    I don’t think the original post had anything to do with packaging or marketing, just the weight of the bottle of two similar wines.

    Right. But TN’s server’s claim was that heavier bottle = better wine, and Andrew’s response is heavier bottle = no better or worse wine, just clever packaging, as a marketing ploy to make the wine stand out. That’s how we got there.

    And fwiw, while I haven’t hefted enough bottles to weigh in on this question one way or the other, or perhaps just haven’t noticed their weight (though I admit to skepticism from the get-go, and I’m more than happy to defer to Andrew and Lisa), it wouldn’t be the first time that someone has thought to use glass this way. Charles Shaw is basically Franzia-quality box wine, packaged in bottles to make it appeal to consumers who wouldn’t think of drinking Franzia out of a box.

    #278135

    berdawn
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    Bear wrote >>

    berdawn wrote >>
    I don’t think the original post had anything to do with packaging or marketing, just the weight of the bottle of two similar wines.

    Right. But TN’s server’s claim was that heavier bottle = better wine, and Andrew’s response is heavier bottle = no better or worse wine, just clever packaging, as a marketing ploy to make the wine stand out. That’s how we got there.
    And fwiw, while I haven’t hefted enough bottles to weigh in on this question one way or the other, or perhaps just haven’t noticed their weight (though I admit to skepticism from the get-go, and I’m more than happy to defer to Andrew and Lisa), it wouldn’t be the first time that someone has thought to use glass this way. Charles Shaw is basically Franzia-quality box wine, packaged in bottles to make it appeal to consumers who wouldn’t think of drinking Franzia out of a box.

    now I have a fall/winter project that involves hefting bottles and comparing the contents. I love suffering for science.

    #278136
    blammo
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    LOL, I have a great diagram that shows how to select a good bottle of wine just by looking at the label. It involves counting the windows in the little drawing of the chateau, and noting the shape of the label itself.

    #278137
    chaptal
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    Don’t forget to measure the depth of the punt too!

    #278138
    lisathewaitress
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    turbo ninja wrote >>
    Are you suggesting we were trying to choose from a “crowded field of sameness” at dinner last week? Unless Alana’s entire list falls under that same dismissive blanket statement, you have no idea what we were considering and I find your statement condescending at best.
    We happened to think it was a handy rule-of-thumb insight that can help a table full of indecisive diners, each with a different entree, to make a choice. If Categories A-X are tied and Category Z is relative quality of the bottle, guess what gets to be the tiebreaker?
    We also happened to think we had no reason to be suspicious or wary of our server, as if he were trying to move some stale inventory from the cellar like a used-car salesman. Good for the server if he sold us bottles that weren’t super-bargains for the quality. We ended up enjoying our selections and no one felt ripped off.
    Wine – and anything else – is worth what you’re willing to pay for it. Since we felt like we got our money’s worth, it is impossible for us to have overpaid. Even if we did, I don’t think repast choices should be determined by what’s the best value. Save that for laundry detergent and cell phone contracts.

    Wow. that isn’t what I was trying to imply at all. I’m sure your server told you that in good faith – I have *never* known anyone at Alana’s to be anything but honest!

    I was just trying to say that I wouldn’t follow that advice. I have heard something similar in regards to buying wine from Trader Joe’s – when there was a glut of french wines, TJs was buying them up and repackaging them for cheap, as things like “french merlot blend.” and that you could judge the quality of the wine based upon the heavy bottle.

    However, I wouldn’t follow that advice, and I wouldn’t want you to forgo a great wine b/c of a “cheap” bottle.

    I’m sorry if I came across snarkily.

    #278139
    lisathewaitress
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    oh! and regarding servers pawning you off on the wine steward. I will happily recommend wine where I work now and before, but when I worked with Mr. Waitress, I would definitely do it because he is SO MUCH better at recommending wines than anyone I know (and I’m not just saying that), and I really think people are missing out if they don’t get the Mr. Waitress experience. I used to always apologize to tables when I had to pour wine and be the sommelier. I think AH and a few others have had to endure my substandard imitation! And everyone there felt the same way, even the girls who didn’t think he was devilishly handsome. ;)

    #278140
    lisathewaitress
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    wasn’t sure which was better, so we’ll do both…

    www.toothpastefordinner.com
    http://www.toothpastefordinner.com

    www.toothpastefordinner.com
    http://www.toothpastefordinner.com

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 74 total)

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