Our City Online

Messageboard - Transportation

3C Passenger Rail Project - News & Updates

Home Forums General Columbus Discussion Transportation 3C Passenger Rail Project – News & Updates

This topic contains 1147 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by jawjack187 jawjack187 9 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 781 through 795 (of 1,160 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #348097
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster
    Login to Send PM

    $3B = ODOT’s Annual Budget

    Core’s point is that we spend an average of $428 per driver per year on “road subsidies” if you want to measure by the same ruler as mentioned earlier.

    #348098

    buckeye81
    Member
    Login to Send PM

    Walker wrote >>
    $3B = ODOT’s Annual Budget
    Core’s point is that we spend an average of $428 per driver per year on “road subsidies” if you want to measure by the same ruler as mentioned earlier.

    Thanks, WALKER! ODOT budget is ridiculous!!

    Kasich needs to look at the firm NUMBERS to make SENSE out of the DOLLARS he handed back to the feds.

    Compare $3billion a year to the number of passenger miles traveled on the ‘superhighways’ of Ohio and how much MONEY and COMMERCE are really generated by keeping these roads upkept to the small annual subsidy of the TRAIN compared to the passenger miles, not to mention the jobs 3c would generate and the economic stimulus and tax return from business development!

    7 million drivers a year for 3 billion? vs. 500,000 RIDERS and only 17 million dollars?? What is so hard to understand?

    Does anyone have the actual number for passenger miles/year the drivers in Ohio go vs. what the train would serve??

    This seems like a no-brainer from where I am sitting!!!

    #348099
    bjones7
    bjones7
    Participant
    Login to Send PM

    #348100
    bjones7
    bjones7
    Participant
    Login to Send PM

    Buckeye81,

    I don’t think there would be too many people that would diagree with you. “7 million drivers a year for 3 billion? vs. 500,000 RIDERS and only 17 million dollars?? What is so hard to understand?” Nothing about this is hard to understand, thats for sure!

    However, like I’ve been hearing, Kasich’s decision is solely based on “Political agenda” and NOT fact! Republican’s don’t want passenger rail spending… Now I believe that Kasich will run with his party the whole way on this issue (or it would be political suicide on his behalf)(my opinion, not fact).

    I seriously think that, there are no individuals on CU or in the State of Ohio that can change Kasich’s or any Republican State Senators mind(lobby all you want..) . I really wish this whole “political agenda thing against passenger rail” wasn’t the truth, but look at states like Wisconsin, and now Florida, saying they will give back their stimulus money for passenger rail. Both states have Republican Governors.

    This is seriously screwed up.

    #348101

    buckeye81
    Member
    Login to Send PM

    YES!!

    Does anyone have projected data on how many trips the average train RIDER will go? And how long each one will be?? ie. total passenger miles??? That is the key here!

    500,000 RIDERS * Average length of trip * Number of trips each RIDER takes a year ===> Total passenger miles the TRAIN will serve. For a $17 million annual subsidy.

    We need to show how (passenger miles/year) / annual subsidy for the TRAIN compares with the $3 BILLION ODOT annual subsidy for just keeping the highways in one piece and how many passenger miles are traveled on Ohio roadways!!

    The issue of ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND JOBS is completely separate. How much business is really brought to Ohio or supported here just because we have roads?? vs. The ADVANTAGES (yes there are a lot, you can read them) of finally catching up and having a passenger TRAIN.

    #348102

    johnwirtz
    Participant
    Login to Send PM

    Walker wrote >>
    $3B = ODOT’s Annual Budget
    Core’s point is that we spend an average of $428 per driver per year on “road subsidies” if you want to measure by the same ruler as mentioned earlier.

    I think this calculation is incorrect since much of ODOT’s spending is generated by user fees (i.e. gas taxes and tolls), and is therefore not a subsidy. This recent post from Cap’n Transit calculates that Ohio’s highways are 65% funded by user fees. I’m not sure what the comparable number for the train is without digging through the reports.

    #348103
    joev
    joev
    Participant
    Login to Send PM

    Core_Models wrote >>
    500k riders, 17 million a year.
    7 million drivers, 3 billion a year.
    34 bucks a person looks damn good to me.

    I want 3C to happen as much as anyone, but I think you’re comparing apples and oranges.

    3C is set to provide 500,000 person-trips, at an average cost subsidy of $34 per person-trip.

    The state highway system might serve 7 million drivers, but shouldn’t you be figuring the number of person-trips? Let’s say very conservatively that those 7 million drivers each take 100-person trips per year, without any passengers. That reduces the per-trip subsidy to $4.28.

    What would be really apples to apples (but fairly difficult to determine in a speculative model for 3C) would be subsidy per person-mile.

    #348104
    Bear
    Bear
    Participant
    Login to Send PM

    Patch wrote >>

    Bear wrote >>
    From the article at the beginning of this thread, the state’s study suggested that the train would attract nearly 500,000 riders a year, and Amtrak said that it’d require $17m in subsidies

    Wait, so the train would require an estimated $34 subsidy per passenger?
    I am reading that correctly?

    Yes. And cutting that $17m over each of the next couple of years (were we to spend it then) would, just to lend some perspective, save us a whopping four tenths of one percent of the state’s estimated $8bn budget shortfall.

    #348105

    johnwirtz
    Participant
    Login to Send PM

    joev wrote >>
    What would be really apples to apples (but fairly difficult to determine in a speculative model for 3C) would be subsidy per person-mile.

    Even that’s not perfect because it rewards longer trips, which isn’t something that we necessarily want to encourage. I think you probably want to look at costs per passenger-mile as well as cost per passenger-trip and realize that they show different things. I think the % subsidy by mode is also useful.

    #348106

    buckeye81
    Member
    Login to Send PM

    joev and john you are RIGHT!

    Can we get a REAL comparison here?? I was confused by WALKER AND CORE.

    We also need to realize that ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT and JOBS are created by the 3C whereas what benefits can really be attributed to the ‘super’highways??? Really they are cash cows. This has been stated so many times in this thread. Is anyone in gov’t listening??

    I see HARD NUMBERS on the train side but nobody can show what benefits come from the other $2.9x billion of ODOT.

    And people wonder why we are in a RECESSION??!?

    #348107
    Walker Evans
    Walker Evans
    Keymaster
    Login to Send PM

    johnwirtz wrote >>
    I think this calculation is incorrect…

    Yeah, it was over simplified, but I was just explaining what Core was getting at, not trying to use that calculation as a talking point.

    If anything, comparing any sort of train “subsidies” to road “subsidies” seems more like comparing coconuts to uglyfruit. Not really doing any type of adequate measurement of the value of either type of expenditure.

    #348108

    buckeye81
    Member
    Login to Send PM

    Thanks, WALKER. I agree!!

    Why would we compare a train to highways?? Why can’t we have both???

    Which is ‘cheaper’ for the state or requires a lower subsidy per passenger mile? YES it is probably the highways BY A LARGE MARGIN!

    I don’t think anyone here is debating that AT ALL.

    What I am talking about, and what most of OHIO is talking about is a SMALL SUBSIDY for the train. As Bear pointed out $17M is a DROP IN THE BUCKET. What about the ADVANTAGES of the train?

    A train can do things highways can’t (and vice versa) but one is not better than the other. Why not give people in OHIO the OPTION??

    Even if it is a $34 subsidy for every passenger on every trip what is that cost compared to the disadvantages of having NO RAIL OPTION AT ALL??

    When the cost of oil goes UP AND UP we are going to be WISHING we had an alternative that does not use gas! Who are the people going to be who are still driving cars then????

    #348109
    Snarf
    Snarf
    Participant
    Login to Send PM

    ^caps lock post OF the YEAR?? ??? ?

    #348110

    johnwirtz
    Participant
    Login to Send PM

    Snarf wrote >>
    ^caps lock post OF the YEAR?? ??? ?

    +1. It’s too annoying to read.

    #348111

    berdawn
    Member
    Login to Send PM

    johnwirtz wrote >>

    Snarf wrote >>
    ^caps lock post OF the YEAR?? ??? ?

    +1. It’s too annoying to read.

    oh no it’s NOT. You’re just not happy with the CONTENT and so you’re CHOOSING to find something about which you can QUIBBLE. what’s next, simply DISMISSING someone because of SPELLING? or even PUNCTUATION?

Viewing 15 posts - 781 through 795 (of 1,160 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Lost your password?