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Suggesting a bus to business travelers is absolutely not a move in the right direction.
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3C false reporting on NBC 4
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Core_Models
Columbus
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Posted 2 years ago # -
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Core_Models wrote >>
If you are traveling from Cleveland to Columbus for a business meeting at Nationwide or any of the downtown offices, walking or bus/cab would suffice.
Suggesting a bus to business travelers is absolutely not a move in the right direction.
Notice I said cab? Depends on the individual. You see a number of suits traveling certain bus lines in Columbus, so it's not a fantasy proposition. The fact remains: not all business travelers will necessarily require a vehicle at their destination.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Core_Models
Columbus
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lifeontwowheels wrote >>
Core_Models wrote >>
If you are traveling from Cleveland to Columbus for a business meeting at Nationwide or any of the downtown offices, walking or bus/cab would suffice.
Suggesting a bus to business travelers is absolutely not a move in the right direction.
Notice I said cab? Depends on the individual. You see a number of suits traveling certain bus lines in Columbus, so it's not a fantasy proposition. The fact remains: not all business travelers will necessarily require a vehicle at their destination.
Regardless, if you want to promote the 3C as a business traveler option, stop talking crazy. The current suggested hours/routes are counterproductive, and the second you say "grab a bus or cab or whatever" to get the rest of the way, you stop selling. I am sure there are people in suits on COTA, but suggesting that someone pay to park in Cleveland, take a train to Columbus, and then pick up a bus or cab to get to their actual meeting you stop making this remotely make sense.
Posted 2 years ago # -
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Core_Models wrote >>
lifeontwowheels wrote >>
Core_Models wrote >>
If you are traveling from Cleveland to Columbus for a business meeting at Nationwide or any of the downtown offices, walking or bus/cab would suffice.
Suggesting a bus to business travelers is absolutely not a move in the right direction.
Notice I said cab? Depends on the individual. You see a number of suits traveling certain bus lines in Columbus, so it's not a fantasy proposition. The fact remains: not all business travelers will necessarily require a vehicle at their destination.
Regardless, if you want to promote the 3C as a business traveler option, stop talking crazy. The current suggested hours/routes are counterproductive, and the second you say "grab a bus or cab or whatever" to get the rest of the way, you stop selling. I am sure there are people in suits on COTA, but suggesting that someone pay to park in Cleveland, take a train to Columbus, and then pick up a bus or cab to get to their actual meeting you stop making this remotely make sense.
I'd agree hours need tweaking.
I guess I see it that, at least initially, the same person who is willing to take a train to [insert city] is at least somewhat receptive to a different method of transportation at the final end. Does their need to be better accommodation (light rail) at the last mile for a long term, sellable 3C rail line? I would agree that there needs to be.
While the current last mile options may not be the most attractive for every 3C user, they still offer at least some accommodation to those traveling. To completely ignore that is what doesn't make sense.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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byJody wrote >>
Mike Thompson asked the panel to define a bi-partisan compromise and of course...silence. I'd say a compromise could be that we just connect Cleveland to Columbus so we can take the train to Chicago.My bi-partisan compromise is for both parties to set aside the bullshit and come together to build the thing as planned. There's really no reason this need to be a partisan issue at all.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Core_Models
Columbus
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lifeontwowheels wrote >>
Core_Models wrote >>
lifeontwowheels wrote >>
Core_Models wrote >>
If you are traveling from Cleveland to Columbus for a business meeting at Nationwide or any of the downtown offices, walking or bus/cab would suffice.
Suggesting a bus to business travelers is absolutely not a move in the right direction.
Notice I said cab? Depends on the individual. You see a number of suits traveling certain bus lines in Columbus, so it's not a fantasy proposition. The fact remains: not all business travelers will necessarily require a vehicle at their destination.
Regardless, if you want to promote the 3C as a business traveler option, stop talking crazy. The current suggested hours/routes are counterproductive, and the second you say "grab a bus or cab or whatever" to get the rest of the way, you stop selling. I am sure there are people in suits on COTA, but suggesting that someone pay to park in Cleveland, take a train to Columbus, and then pick up a bus or cab to get to their actual meeting you stop making this remotely make sense.
I'd agree hours need tweaking.
I guess I see it that, at least initially, the same person who is willing to take a train to [insert city] is at least somewhat receptive to a different method of transportation at the final end. Does their need to be better accommodation (light rail) at the last mile for a long term, sellable 3C rail line? I would agree that there needs to be.
While the current last mile options may not be the most attractive for every 3C user, they still offer at least some accommodation to those traveling. To completely ignore that is what doesn't make sense.And all that makes great sense to me as a rail supporter, but until you can explain to the average guy why he'd be better off taking the train than driving to Cleveland, you're not going to win this. Any part of the conversation that starts with "drive to the station and park" and ends with "get off the train and hop a bus or a cab" fails to meet this simple test. Your business trip just became more complicated, more expensive, more timely, and basically has zero benefit at all.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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bman wrote >>
What type of payback would be justifiable for a project like this?That question is answered best with another question. What type of payback would be justifiable for any proposed highway project in Ohio? I say that we hold the train to the same standards that we do other types of transit projects.
bman wrote >>
Times are tough right now, I think we need to intelligently spend our resources...Keep in mind that the $25M approved for the study is coming out of the $400M of federal stimulus funding, not directly from the Ohio budget or Ohio taxpayers. This is money allocated specifically for this project. This isn't money that can be spent on anything else. If we decide to give this money back to the feds it will be allocated to a rail project in another state.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Core_Models wrote >>
Any part of the conversation that starts with "drive to the station and park" and ends with "get off the train and hop a bus or a cab" fails to meet this simple test. Your business trip just became more complicated, more expensive, more timely, and basically has zero benefit at all.But you think the solution is replacing "bus/cab" with "streetcar/light-rail"? I don't see how that is any less complicated, timely, or costly. Just aesthetically more appealing.
Posted 2 years ago # -
rus
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bman wrote >>
What type of payback would be justifiable for a project like this? Just because it is green does not make it sensible. To me this project would be like connecting Evansville Indiana to Indianapolis to Fort Wayne, not sure of the value. Times are tough right now, I think we need to intelligently spend our resources and if paying for a study to see if we should spend the money on this connectivity is intelligent then do it, but don't do it just because it is thinking outside the box and green.
And btw, I might be old but I am far from conservative, but try to be fiscally sound.This is a good point; what would qualify the 3C project as a success? A failure?
Posted 2 years ago # -
rus
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Walker wrote >>
bman wrote >>
What type of payback would be justifiable for a project like this?That question is answered best with another question. What type of payback would be justifiable for any proposed highway project in Ohio? I say that we hold the train to the same standards that we do other types of transit projects.
Which are what, exactly? In 3C's case would X passengers per mile be a good metric?
Posted 2 years ago # -
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Walker wrote >>
Core_Models wrote >>
Any part of the conversation that starts with "drive to the station and park" and ends with "get off the train and hop a bus or a cab" fails to meet this simple test. Your business trip just became more complicated, more expensive, more timely, and basically has zero benefit at all.But you think the solution is replacing "bus/cab" with "streetcar/light-rail"? I don't see how that is any less complicated, timely, or costly. Just aesthetically more appealing.
Answered another way: doesn't this same hypothetical business person encounter the same thing when flying?
Expensive cab ride to their destination or booking a rental car or taking available transit service from the airport to the final destination. All adding time and expense.
How it's any different when the mode of initial transportation changes is beyond me.
ETA
One immediate benefit, regardless of all other considerations, is the productivity rail affords a business traveler.
Posted 2 years ago # -
bman
New Albany
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Walker wrote >>
bman wrote >>
What type of payback would be justifiable for a project like this?That question is answered best with another question. What type of payback would be justifiable for any proposed highway project in Ohio? I say that we hold the train to the same standards that we do other types of transit projects.
bman wrote >>
Times are tough right now, I think we need to intelligently spend our resources...Keep in mind that the $25M approved for the study is coming out of the $400M of federal stimulus funding, not directly from the Ohio budget or Ohio taxpayers. This is money allocated specifically for this project. This isn't money that can be spent on anything else. If we decide to give this money back to the feds it will be allocated to a rail project in another state.
Kinda disagree with you there Walker ... everyone ... EVERYONE uses the streets and highways. If you take your high speed train to Cleveland you are still going to have to use the streets and highway system to get to your final destination. Not everyone will use the high speed rail between the 3C's ... how about the people in Toledo? Lima? Athens? etc ...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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mfreeman wrote >>
For leisure, I don't see that the train is of any benefit for a family trip.Not everyone who travels for leisure is a family of four. So your example does not represent all leisure travelers, only a portion. The same argument that someone traveling solo for leisure in a car doesn't make financial sense and that we should be building rail alternatives for those types of travelers.
mfreeman wrote >>
For business, the parking / train ticket / rental car or taxi rides needs to have both a cost and speed better than one person driving a car.I agree that cost & speed are important to many business travelers, but why are those the only two defining factors that must be taken into consideration here? I see more and more business commuters every day choosing to travel by bike despite the fact that it may not be faster, and more and more business commuters traveling by bus despite the fact that a $4 one-day bus pass is more expensive than the half-gallon of gas that it would cost to get you to work that day.
If we're looking at the big picture, there are dozens of factors that weigh on transit choices and hundreds of reasons for someone to take a trip and thousands of urban destinations in the four 3c cities. We have to take a really wide scope in looking at all of the millions of possible combinations of traveler trips and stop trying to project our singular individual scenarios onto what is an extremely diverse population.
Posted 2 years ago # -
somertimeoh
Harrison West
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Supporters should stop trying to convince the opposition this is right for them and focus on how this is right for SOME which benefits EVERYONE by getting cars off the road (hello parking lot on I-71 the Sunday after any major holiday!!) and out of parking lots leaving sporting festivals, concerts, holiday gatherings, etc.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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bman wrote >>
Kinda disagree with you there Walker ... everyone ... EVERYONE uses the streets and highways. If you take your high speed train to Cleveland you are still going to have to use the streets and highway system to get to your final destination. Not everyone will use the high speed rail between the 3C's ... how about the people in Toledo? Lima? Athens? etc ...Well, everyone collectively pays for roadways, but the percentage of roadways any individual uses within the state is a pretty small number. I'm willing to bet that you've helped pay for roads all over the state that you've never used and probably never will use.
Similarly, funding the 3C doesn't mean that it should be something that needs to service 100% of the population.
Posted 2 years ago # -
bman
New Albany
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Walker wrote >>
bman wrote >>
Kinda disagree with you there Walker ... everyone ... EVERYONE uses the streets and highways. If you take your high speed train to Cleveland you are still going to have to use the streets and highway system to get to your final destination. Not everyone will use the high speed rail between the 3C's ... how about the people in Toledo? Lima? Athens? etc ...Well, everyone collectively pays for roadways, but the percentage of roadways any individual uses within the state is a pretty small number. I'm willing to bet that you've helped pay for roads all over the state that you've never used and probably never will use.
Similarly, funding the 3C doesn't mean that it should be something that needs to service 100% of the population.So you would still be as ardent of a supporter if this was the CTC rail, Cincy - Toledo - Cleveland. I think not ...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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somertimeoh wrote >>
Supporters should stop trying to convince the opposition this is right for them and focus on how this is right for SOME which benefits EVERYONE by getting cars off the road (hello parking lot on I-71 the Sunday after any major holiday!!) and out of parking lots leaving sporting festivals, concerts, holiday gatherings, etc.Agreed. Everyone stands to benefit from this whether directly by riding it or indirectly by highway congestion alleviation and economic development.
I've probably made it pretty obvious that I'm a staunch supporter of this, but I honestly really don't see myself riding the 3C more than a few times per year at the most. My in-state family/holiday trips are to the Canton area, and with a family of four, trips to Cleveland or Dayton or Cincy are probably going to be cheaper by car for us until gas prices manage to double in the near future.
My personal benefit will most likely be more indirect than direct.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Nate
Suburbs
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somertimeoh wrote >>
Supporters should stop trying to convince the opposition this is right for them and focus on how this is right for SOME which benefits EVERYONE by getting cars off the road (hello parking lot on I-71 the Sunday after any major holiday!!) and out of parking lots leaving sporting festivals, concerts, holiday gatherings, etc.+1
Posted 2 years ago #
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