http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution ColumbusUnderground.com Messageboard en-US Sun, 19 May 2013 00:37:58 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/search.php http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-364072 Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:37:43 +0000 sirlancelot 364072@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>Ohio Republicans are unlikely to revisit the issue, anytime soon, because the state budget is more important. We went through this some years ago with the State Board Of Education members debate on science standards. The Freshwater trial should illustrate the difficulties faced by public schools when teaching Creationism or ID. I think the place to explain such ideas is within a social and historical science framework. This would include ancient views (Babylonian, etc.) to modern alternatives (ancient astronauts). This would put ID on par with other views and, without the controversy, to a more open and honest presentation.</p> <p>I understand the Roman Catholic Church sees no contradiction between evolution and the Creation story. As for Judaism, it certainly does not read or interpret Genesis the same way as Fundamentalist Christians. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363774 Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:17:47 +0000 myliftkk 363774@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>Jesus... pun intended... this thread went off-topic.</p> <p>Back to non-evolution. Coming from a deeply religious and pretty well-educated upbringing, I can speak to the fact that parents, at least those who support this sort of legislation, don't want their kids exposed to the reality of evolution. This type of bill only serves that purpose by attempting to conflate what they learn via their religion with what they learn via school instruction, so as to reinforce religious instruction with follow-up social instruction. Very few teenagers are going to be interested in parsing the details of evolution versus those of ID, and that's the craven bet that Republicans that support it are placing. I was certainly happy to essentially hold both ideas in my mind without conflict into my early twenties, albiet with little serious reading on evolutionary studies until that time. A key point being the variant of ID, and variants go back to the 1890s (so which one do they want to teach), I was taught never had the imprimatur of anyone in my primary schooling experience instructing me about it.</p> <p>What these ID proponents are grasping for is the imprimatur of respectability. Something I'm not inclined to ever let them near, especially now that their goal of defenestrating the teachers unions is nearly complete. Despite worries in this thread that US students aren't great scientists, in general we're not trending to be more religious, but exactly the opposite, which is why this political act takes on the air of desperation. The overall religious trend is what I like to think of as the side benefit of a having a culture that fascinates itself with Charlie Sheen's daily routine of coke and strippers. If we can just keep Charlie on TV for a few more years, we can certainly shave a few more points off the US Christianity index, and that will be better for everybody. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363748 Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:53:08 +0000 rus 363748@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363711"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite><br /> Rus, first let me apologize. I acted like a child. Responding to outlandish misrepresentation of my views does not give me the right to respond in kind. If there is anything I want to achieve on this board is a sense of community. That doesn't happen when we run around calling each other names. You and I have strong opinions on a variety of subjects and I doubt that will change.</p></blockquote> <p>Accepted, with caveat: While I may certainly be wrong in understanding what your views are, I'm not attempting to deliberately misrepresent them. Sure, odds are we're going to disagree but when I say you seem to view all republicans as crazy (for instance) that's exactly how I read you. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363711 Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:29:04 +0000 DavidF 363711@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>Rus, first let me apologize. I acted like a child. Responding to outlandish misrepresentation of my views does not give me the right to respond in kind. If there is anything I want to achieve on this board is a sense of community. That doesn't happen when we run around calling each other names. You and I have strong opinions on a variety of subjects and I doubt that will change.</p> <p>The larger issue is how do we get beyond this tit for tat foolishness and work to solve the issues in front of us in a way that is respectful of the variety of view points both on this board and in society at large, while actually achieving real, lasting fiscal change.</p> <p>Cut have to occur. Many of them I will disagree with. I don't expect that society will ever fully do what I want it to do. I can live with that. What I find unacceptable, is how the current fixes seem blatantly designed to benefit the people who got us into this mess, and to further damage those whose lives and livelihoods are already precarious at best.</p> <p>Show me some shared sacrifice and I will be with you. What I've seen so far is a almost fanatical belief that we can only move ahead by bleeding the poor and middle class, while we continually defer to the top 1%. That is not shared sacrifice. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363704 Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:07:35 +0000 Bear 363704@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>hugh59 wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363701"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>Bear wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363693"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite><br /> Hugh, I agree that that's a very accurate portrayal of Republicans... like Eisenhower. I just don't believe there are many of those folks around any more. </p></blockquote> <p>They are still around. Berdawn is right that the GOP politicians are good at talking about spending cuts and bad at delivering them. But the Democrats did not even try. They had total control of Congress and the presidency for 2 years and gave us levels of spending undreamed of. The last year of George W Bush gave us a $1.3 trillion deficit thanks to the $800 billion TARP program. The Democrats gave us 2 years with bigger deficits and are stalling on a third.</p></blockquote> <p>Keep going.... </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363702 Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:04:49 +0000 gramarye 363702@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363602"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>hugh59 wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363601"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363577"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite><br /> I'm obviously going to disagree. To me it's just more race to the bottom. Undermine anyone and everyone who makes a decent living outside of the chosen few. Reduce our government to third world levels. Unlimited profit for the the few, unlimited misery for the many.</p></blockquote> <p>Doesn't work that way. The mega-wealthy make more money if there is a large, thriving middle class. The only ones that the mega-wealthy are going to target for hostile action are the nearly mega-wealthy.</p></blockquote> <p>Actually it does work that way. It's inherently self-destructive, but I'm not the one trying to claim any of this is rational. It's hoarding mentality on a grand scale. Each one thinking of nothing beyond their own immediate profit, not caring that they are undermining the basic structure that brought them wealth in the first place. It's an unfortunate historic pattern that has repeated again and again.</p></blockquote> <p>This is only half-true. Yes, the wealthy <em>can</em> profit from the existence of a thriving middle class. However, they only profit from a thriving middle class that earns its way there (which, to me, is the only valid way the middle class could qualify as "thriving"), not one that sustains its standard of living due to government. The wealthy certainly don't profit from trying to pay middle class wages for below-middle-class work (or from investing in companies that do so). All that accomplishes is to bankrupt whatever enterprise made them wealthy in the first place, which is the story of the Rust Belt.</p> <p>What distinguishes Third World governments isn't their lack of wasteful social spending. It's their lack of the true essentials: the rule of law (i.e., the leaders are subject to the law), impartial administration of justice, strong property and contract rights, a stable currency, and basic civil and economic liberties. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363701 Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:03:33 +0000 hugh59 363701@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>Bear wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363693"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite><br /> Hugh, I agree that that's a very accurate portrayal of Republicans... like Eisenhower. I just don't believe there are many of those folks around any more. </p></blockquote> <p>They are still around. Berdawn is right that the GOP politicians are good at talking about spending cuts and bad at delivering them. But the Democrats did not even try. They had total control of Congress and the presidency for 2 years and gave us levels of spending undreamed of. The last year of George W Bush gave us a $1.3 trillion deficit thanks to the $800 billion TARP program. The Democrats gave us 2 years with bigger deficits and are stalling on a third. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363699 Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:56:16 +0000 Andrew Hall 363699@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>Snarf wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363694"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite><br /> This all republicans evil blabber seems weightless and unreasonable, especially coming from folks otherwise thought of as very reasonable.</p></blockquote> <p>Do you ever have anything negative to say about Republicans? It seems like you treat political affliation like a sport teams for which one roots all the time, regardless of the situation.</p> <p>A. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363696 Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:51:06 +0000 hugh59 363696@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>berdawn wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363690"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>hugh59 wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363665"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite><br /> There are plenty of craziness in the Dem party too. There are people who seem to have never seen a noble cause that they did not want to find, no matter how wasteful or inefficient they proved to be. So now we can't afford to fund everything and we don't know what to cut.<br /> Anything we cut is going to hurt, but if we don't make them now (when we can have some control over them) our government will go into default and nothing will be paid for. I have been in a government that ran out of money (the Virgin Islands in the late 90s; it was not nice at all). Bit we have people sitting on the sidelines complaining and trying to capitalize politically on this.<br /> Sadly, members of both parties created this mess and are playing politics with it. But the massive growth in the role of the government started in the 30s and accelerated during the 60s. The Democrats became the party of big expensive programs to solve every problem (and win the support of every special interest group and constituency). The Republicans became a "me too" party, just 15% less.</p></blockquote> <p>Nice try, Hugh, but saying "Dems do it, too" is crap. We can type all day about fiscal matters, but your party on the state and national level has brought forth little legislation regarding fiscal decisions. Emergency legislation to require photo ID in order to vote TX? check. Banning implementation of sharia or the teaching of Arabic? check. Eliminating collective bargaining? check. The only fiscal legislation that has come up has been cutting funding for preventative medical care for poor women and NPR. well done!</p></blockquote> <p>Yes, the politicians are more worried about getting reelected than they are worried about controlling spending. You want to blame the conservatives and give the liberals a pass.</p> <p>Liberals are responsible for creating the idea that government can solve all our problems back in the days when both major parties had liberal and conservative wings. Well, government is better at wasting money than it is at solving problems. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363694 Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:49:58 +0000 Snarf 363694@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>This all republicans evil blabber seems weightless and unreasonable, especially coming from folks otherwise thought of as very reasonable. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363693 Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:47:23 +0000 Bear 363693@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>Hugh, I agree that that's a very accurate portrayal of Republicans... like Eisenhower. I just don't believe there are many of those folks around any more. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363690 Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:39:16 +0000 berdawn 363690@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>hugh59 wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363665"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite><br /> There are plenty of craziness in the Dem party too. There are people who seem to have never seen a noble cause that they did not want to find, no matter how wasteful or inefficient they proved to be. So now we can't afford to fund everything and we don't know what to cut.<br /> Anything we cut is going to hurt, but if we don't make them now (when we can have some control over them) our government will go into default and nothing will be paid for. I have been in a government that ran out of money (the Virgin Islands in the late 90s; it was not nice at all). Bit we have people sitting on the sidelines complaining and trying to capitalize politically on this.<br /> Sadly, members of both parties created this mess and are playing politics with it. But the massive growth in the role of the government started in the 30s and accelerated during the 60s. The Democrats became the party of big expensive programs to solve every problem (and win the support of every special interest group and constituency). The Republicans became a "me too" party, just 15% less.</p></blockquote> <p>Nice try, Hugh, but saying "Dems do it, too" is crap. We can type all day about fiscal matters, but your party on the state and national level has brought forth little legislation regarding fiscal decisions. Emergency legislation to require photo ID in order to vote TX? check. Banning implementation of sharia or the teaching of Arabic? check. Eliminating collective bargaining? check. The only fiscal legislation that has come up has been cutting funding for preventative medical care for poor women and NPR. well done! </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363665 Tue, 22 Mar 2011 08:26:19 +0000 hugh59 363665@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>There are plenty of craziness in the Dem party too. There are people who seem to have never seen a noble cause that they did not want to find, no matter how wasteful or inefficient they proved to be. So now we can't afford to fund everything and we don't know what to cut.</p> <p>Anything we cut is going to hurt, but if we don't make them now (when we can have some control over them) our government will go into default and nothing will be paid for. I have been in a government that ran out of money (the Virgin Islands in the late 90s; it was not nice at all). Bit we have people sitting on the sidelines complaining and trying to capitalize politically on this.</p> <p>Sadly, members of both parties created this mess and are playing politics with it. But the massive growth in the role of the government started in the 30s and accelerated during the 60s. The Democrats became the party of big expensive programs to solve every problem (and win the support of every special interest group and constituency). The Republicans became a "me too" party, just 15% less. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363628 Tue, 22 Mar 2011 00:58:36 +0000 Bear 363628@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>rus wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363616"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite><br /> So explain this bit:<br /> <blockquote>Good intentions or not, rational arguments or not, there comes a time when it is no longer sufficient to accept your cries that you are not like one of the crazies who drive the ideology and policies of your party.</blockquote><br /> Either everyone agrees with you or they support the crazies? </p></blockquote> <p>To interpret—I believe there's a third category that David's trying to delineate: Republicans who neither agree with him nor with the extremists who drive the ideology and policies of the Republican Party. I gather his complaint is that this third group distances itself from the extremists within its own party when talking to Democrats but also fails to exert control over the direction of the Republican Party—a behavior that he seems to interpret as a failure of responsibility on their part.</p> <p>David, is that about right? </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363616 Mon, 21 Mar 2011 22:04:21 +0000 rus 363616@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363615"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite></p> <p>Wow, perhaps you are simply illiterate. The "crazies" are driving the Republican agenda right now. I never considered my opposition in toto to be crazies. Try actually reading what I wrote. And my god, you have written so many things much, much more inflammatory than that. Keep trying.</p></blockquote> <p>So explain this bit:</p> <p><blockquote>Good intentions or not, rational arguments or not, there comes a time when it is no longer sufficient to accept your cries that you are not like one of the crazies who drive the ideology and policies of your party.</blockquote></p> <p>Either everyone agrees with you or they support the crazies? </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363615 Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:57:26 +0000 DavidF 363615@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>rus wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363614"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363612"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>rus wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363609"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363607"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite><br /> Once upon a time I had the naive belief that you were actually willing to engage in a give and take type of conversation. I see now it's more of a give and defame on your part.</p></blockquote> <p>Oh please. I picked apart your arguments on private prisons and your well reasoned response was, in effect, "nuh-uh!".<br /> You consider extremist positions "understandable" yet protest when someone else points out your "morality".</p></blockquote> <p>puhlease. you never picked apart my argument. You never really addressed it. (Though I'm sure in your mind you did). I consider outrage and anger understandable given the extremist positions being forced upon us by the Kasich administration. I have not in this thread or in any other said that I found extremist positions to be understandable. If you can't do better than to continually make up things that people never said then do me a favor and just stop pretend responding.<br /> You attribute extreme views to anyone who disagrees with you. You twist their words or outright invent things they supposedly said. You slur, defame and belittle others, then have the gall to be outraged when others do similar to you.<br /> I've tried to have reasonable conversations with you, but at the end of the day, you are not amenable to reason. Unlike you, I have a verifiable history of being able to reach across ideological lines and make common ground with others, so you're attempts to label me an extremist are pathetic at best.</p></blockquote> <p>No, I don't attribute extremist views to anyone who disagrees with me.<br /> I do read this as extremist, though:</p> <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/what-i-oppose-senate-bill-5/page/28#post-362242"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite><br /> I've attempted to restrain myself, but this is not a situation where restraint prevails. I don't doubt most conservatives are good people who are not malicious by nature, but that doesn't excuse the malicious nature of the programs you support. Good people, usually out of fear, have supported some of the most heinous acts in history. I gave years of my life to defend a system I've watched your ilk defame and attempt to destroy. Your conceptions of liberty would make a monarchist laugh. Your ideas of economic justice warm the hearts of plutocrats and autocrats the world over. Your ideas of social justice are to continually expand the definitions of the "them" who are a threat to "us."<br /> Good intentions or not, rational arguments or not, there comes a time when it is no longer sufficient to accept your cries that you are not like one of the crazies who drive the ideology and policies of your party. Reason is the weakness of Democrats. It cannot stand up to the fear mongering and prejudice tweaking that is the heart and soul of Republican belief. Then, simply to add salt to our wounds, we are told by the very people who traffic in lies and division, that we need to constrain ourselves from engaging in the very same tactics that are used against us on a daily basis.</p></blockquote> <p>If you consider your opposition "the crazies" then there's no chance for meaningful, reasoned discussion.</p></blockquote> <p>Wow, perhaps you are simply illiterate. The "crazies" are driving the Republican agenda right now. I never considered my opposition in toto to be crazies. Try actually reading what I wrote. And my god, you have written so many things much, much more inflammatory than that. Keep trying. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/5#post-363614 Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:53:44 +0000 rus 363614@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363612"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>rus wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363609"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363607"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite><br /> Once upon a time I had the naive belief that you were actually willing to engage in a give and take type of conversation. I see now it's more of a give and defame on your part.</p></blockquote> <p>Oh please. I picked apart your arguments on private prisons and your well reasoned response was, in effect, "nuh-uh!".<br /> You consider extremist positions "understandable" yet protest when someone else points out your "morality".</p></blockquote> <p>puhlease. you never picked apart my argument. You never really addressed it. (Though I'm sure in your mind you did). I consider outrage and anger understandable given the extremist positions being forced upon us by the Kasich administration. I have not in this thread or in any other said that I found extremist positions to be understandable. If you can't do better than to continually make up things that people never said then do me a favor and just stop pretend responding.<br /> You attribute extreme views to anyone who disagrees with you. You twist their words or outright invent things they supposedly said. You slur, defame and belittle others, then have the gall to be outraged when others do similar to you.<br /> I've tried to have reasonable conversations with you, but at the end of the day, you are not amenable to reason. Unlike you, I have a verifiable history of being able to reach across ideological lines and make common ground with others, so you're attempts to label me an extremist are pathetic at best.</p></blockquote> <p>No, I don't attribute extremist views to anyone who disagrees with me.</p> <p>I do read this as extremist, though:</p> <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/what-i-oppose-senate-bill-5/page/28#post-362242"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite></p> <p>I've attempted to restrain myself, but this is not a situation where restraint prevails. I don't doubt most conservatives are good people who are not malicious by nature, but that doesn't excuse the malicious nature of the programs you support. Good people, usually out of fear, have supported some of the most heinous acts in history. I gave years of my life to defend a system I've watched your ilk defame and attempt to destroy. Your conceptions of liberty would make a monarchist laugh. Your ideas of economic justice warm the hearts of plutocrats and autocrats the world over. Your ideas of social justice are to continually expand the definitions of the "them" who are a threat to "us."<br /> Good intentions or not, rational arguments or not, there comes a time when it is no longer sufficient to accept your cries that you are not like one of the crazies who drive the ideology and policies of your party. Reason is the weakness of Democrats. It cannot stand up to the fear mongering and prejudice tweaking that is the heart and soul of Republican belief. Then, simply to add salt to our wounds, we are told by the very people who traffic in lies and division, that we need to constrain ourselves from engaging in the very same tactics that are used against us on a daily basis.</p></blockquote> <p>If you consider your opposition "the crazies" then there's no chance for meaningful, reasoned discussion. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363612 Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:45:52 +0000 DavidF 363612@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>rus wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363609"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363607"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite><br /> Once upon a time I had the naive belief that you were actually willing to engage in a give and take type of conversation. I see now it's more of a give and defame on your part.</p></blockquote> <p>Oh please. I picked apart your arguments on private prisons and your well reasoned response was, in effect, "nuh-uh!".<br /> You consider extremist positions "understandable" yet protest when someone else points out your "morality".</p></blockquote> <p>puhlease. you never picked apart my argument. You never really addressed it. (Though I'm sure in your mind you did). I consider outrage and anger understandable given the extremist positions being forced upon us by the Kasich administration. I have not in this thread or in any other said that I found extremist positions to be understandable. If you can't do better than to continually make up things that people never said then do me a favor and just stop pretend responding.</p> <p>You attribute extreme views to anyone who disagrees with you. You twist their words or outright invent things they supposedly said. You slur, defame and belittle others, then have the gall to be outraged when others do similar to you.</p> <p>I've tried to have reasonable conversations with you, but at the end of the day, you are not amenable to reason. Unlike you, I have a verifiable history of being able to reach across ideological lines and make common ground with others, so you're attempts to label me an extremist are pathetic at best. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363609 Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:30:02 +0000 rus 363609@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363607"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite></p> <p>Once upon a time I had the naive belief that you were actually willing to engage in a give and take type of conversation. I see now it's more of a give and defame on your part.</p></blockquote> <p>Oh please. I picked apart your arguments on private prisons and your well reasoned response was, in effect, "nuh-uh!". </p> <p>You consider extremist positions "understandable" yet protest when someone else points out your "morality". </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363607 Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:18:40 +0000 DavidF 363607@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>rus wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363606"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363602"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>hugh59 wrote <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/next-up-for-republicans-teaching-non-evolution/page/4#post-363601"> &gt;&gt; </a></cite><br /> Doesn't work that way. The mega-wealthy make more money if there is a large, thriving middle class. The only ones that the mega-wealthy are going to target for hostile action are the nearly mega-wealthy.</p></blockquote> <p>Actually it does work that way. It's inherently self-destructive, but I'm not the one trying to claim any of this is rational. It's hoarding mentality on a grand scale. Each one thinking of nothing beyond their own immediate profit, not caring that they are undermining the basic structure that brought them wealth in the first place. It's an unfortunate historic pattern that has repeated again and again.</p></blockquote> <p>So in your world view not only are the rich evil for not wanting to share, they're also batshit crazy hoarders.</p></blockquote> <p>Nope. Once again you deliberately misstate was was pretty clearly written. (almost pathological pattern of yours) I tend not to use terms like evil. I also don't believe they are crazy. What they do makes perfect sense for them in the short term. What most people at any level lack is any sense of history or long term thinking. Self destruction isn't limited to any group of people, it's just that same self destructive behaviors have more impact on the rest of us.</p> <p>But hey, keep running with the idea that any viewpoint other than yours is inherently extremist. </p> <p>Once upon a time I had the naive belief that you were actually willing to engage in a give and take type of conversation. I see now it's more of a give and defame on your part. </p>