http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients ColumbusUnderground.com Messageboard en-US Fri, 24 May 2013 14:03:33 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/search.php http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/7#post-485182 Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:42:53 +0000 sirlancelot 485182@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>After reading the Sunday Dispatch article concerning unemployment and decline of the middle class, cutting Food Stamps would be a mistake. Focus on fraud, yes, but realise that we face a social explosion or worse if people go hungry. Charity foodbanks are already overwhelmed. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/7#post-485114 Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:54:24 +0000 Coremodels 485114@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>As liberal leaning as I am, the food stamp program is one that could use some serious overhaul. I know of a number of people, personally, who receive benefits that really probably shouldn't. While anecdotal, I have to think it speaks to wider spread issues. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/7#post-485072 Tue, 29 Jan 2013 09:33:28 +0000 News 485072@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p><strong>Food Stamp Fraud: A Constant Problem</strong><br /> By: TED HART | NBC4i.com<br /> Published: January 28, 2013</p> <p><em>The recent recession led to a record number of people participating in government food assistance programs. In Ohio, the number of participants in the "SNAP" program, formerly known as food stamps, swelled to 1.9 million in 2012.<br /> </em><br /> <em>Eligibility is based on income and when incomes fell during the recession, the numbers of recipients went up. Ben Johnson, spokesman for the Ohio Department of Job and Family Service said the increase demonstrates the program's effectiveness.<br /> </em><br /> READ MORE: <a href="http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2013/jan/28/food-stamp-fraud-constant-problem-ar-1331271/" rel="nofollow">http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2013/jan/28/food-stamp-fraud-constant-problem-ar-1331271/</a> </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/7#post-471739 Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:46:57 +0000 News 471739@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p><strong>Ohioans’ Food Stamp Benefits To Decrease Next Year</strong><br /> November 12, 2012<br /> by The Associated Press</p> <p><em>Ohioans who get food stamp benefits could see that aid shrink by about $50 a month next year, partly because of a change in how the government calculates utility expenses for recipients.<br /> </em><br /> READ MORE: <a href="http://wosu.org/2012/news/2012/11/12/ohioans-food-stamp-benefits-to-decrease-next-year/" rel="nofollow">http://wosu.org/2012/news/2012/11/12/ohioans-food-stamp-benefits-to-decrease-next-year/</a> </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/7#post-464252 Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:38:18 +0000 News 464252@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p><strong>Welfare cases in Ohio tumble</strong><br /> BY KATE GIAMMARISE<br /> BLADE STAFF WRITER</p> <p><em>Ohio’s welfare rolls continue to decline sharply, statistics from the state show. Declining participation is part of the reason Ohio will likely avoid a federal penalty of $135 million, but critics charge the state’s most vulnerable children and adults are being denied needed assistance.<br /> </em><br /> READ MORE: <a href="http://www.toledoblade.com/State/2012/09/23/Welfare-cases-in-Ohio-tumble.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.toledoblade.com/State/2012/09/23/Welfare-cases-in-Ohio-tumble.html</a> </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/7#post-437289 Fri, 25 May 2012 11:20:25 +0000 DavidF 437289@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>rus <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/7#post-437277">said</a>:</cite><br /> Suffice to say that drug testing with what we know right now does not make sense. It could, but right now it doesn't. </p></blockquote> <p>Consensus! For now of course... ;) </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/7#post-437277 Fri, 25 May 2012 10:55:34 +0000 rus 437277@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/7#post-437270">said</a>:</cite><br /> Never mind. I'm not gonna start digging up unrelated threads. Let's leave it at this. I'm not an unconscious ideologue. If something makes sense to me, I will concede the point as I have numerous times on this site. This proposal neither makes sense, nor is it actually designed to. </p></blockquote> <p>Suffice to say that drug testing with what we know right now does not make sense. It could, but right now it doesn't. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/7#post-437270 Fri, 25 May 2012 10:51:35 +0000 DavidF 437270@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>rus <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/7#post-437267">said</a>:</cite><br /> 1. No I didn't.<br /> 2. Ideally, the lack of support would force them to make life changes for the better, but that gets into personal experiences I will not share on a public forum.<br /> 3. Name one time. I can't recall any such event. </p></blockquote> <p>Never mind. I'm not gonna start digging up unrelated threads. Let's leave it at this. I'm not an unconscious ideologue. If something makes sense to me, I will concede the point as I have numerous times on this site. This proposal neither makes sense, nor is it actually designed to. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/7#post-437267 Fri, 25 May 2012 10:47:23 +0000 rus 437267@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/7#post-437262">said</a>:</cite><br /> 1. You know I support legalization.<br /> 2. I don't say it would be economical. I believe it would simply divert monies from attempting to help people to budgets that are used to punish people (i.e. law enforcement, courts, prisons). These people don't just vanish from the face of the earth once you cut them off. It simply doesn't solve a problem other then move the public monies to a different pot.<br /> 3. Screw you. I've crossed ideological lines plenty of times if I thought it made sense. Again, something you know all too well. </p></blockquote> <p>1. No I didn't.<br /> 2. Ideally, the lack of support would force them to make life changes for the better, but that gets into personal experiences I will not share on a public forum.<br /> 3. Name one time. I can't recall any such event. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/7#post-437262 Fri, 25 May 2012 10:41:31 +0000 DavidF 437262@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>rus <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437256">said</a>:</cite><br /> I've already shown that drug testing can be cost effective. I don't think we disagree that drug testing is commonly accepted; you may think that's a bad thing, but it's not uncommon nor without precedent.</p> <p>So don't try some bullshit with me about sovereignty. If you want to make drug use legal, say so. Ideologically I'd even support it, even though I'd never use them personally.</p> <p>However, while it's illegal and public monies are fraudulently diverted to pay for them that's a problem. Sure, fight fraud economically. If that means drug testing isn't cost effective then don't do that, but if it is cost effective don't avoid it just because someone from the other side suggested it. </p></blockquote> <p>1. You know I support legalization.<br /> 2. I don't say it would be economical. I believe it would simply divert monies from attempting to help people to budgets that are used to punish people (i.e. law enforcement, courts, prisons). These people don't just vanish from the face of the earth once you cut them off. It simply doesn't solve a problem other then move the public monies to a different pot.<br /> 3. Screw you. I've crossed ideological lines plenty of times if I thought it made sense. Again, something you know all too well. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437256 Fri, 25 May 2012 10:32:26 +0000 rus 437256@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437240">said</a>:</cite><br /> Because yet again another unnecessary intrusion in the peoples lives and bodily sovereignty would be avoided. I've already stated my stance on drug testing in general so don't try to use the every does it argument with me. </p></blockquote> <p>I've already shown that drug testing can be cost effective. I don't think we disagree that drug testing is commonly accepted; you may think that's a bad thing, but it's not uncommon nor without precedent.</p> <p>So don't try some bullshit with me about sovereignty. If you want to make drug use legal, say so. Ideologically I'd even support it, even though I'd never use them personally.</p> <p>However, while it's illegal and public monies are fraudulently diverted to pay for them that's a problem. Sure, fight fraud economically. If that means drug testing isn't cost effective then don't do that, but if it is cost effective don't avoid it just because someone from the other side suggested it. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437240 Fri, 25 May 2012 10:08:41 +0000 DavidF 437240@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>rus <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437222">said</a>:</cite><br /> Because those on public assistance should be spared the indignity of being treated like government employees, employees of government contractors, etc. </p></blockquote> <p>Because yet again another unnecessary intrusion in the peoples lives and bodily sovereignty would be avoided. I've already stated my stance on drug testing in general so don't try to use the every does it argument with me. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437231 Fri, 25 May 2012 10:01:08 +0000 local champion 437231@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437195">said</a>:</cite><br /> See, once again you're don't seem to be reading so well. I'm absolutely sure you're telling the truth about your personal, highly anecdotal experience. However, you then seem to want to turn that into a generalization about the pervasiveness of fraud in the system as a whole. I simply want to know where you get this information. </p> <p>Oh, and I didn't vilify a poor person who disagreed with me, I vilified you. (for which I apologized) I have no way of knowing if you are a poor person or not. </p> <p>And in business, I never take the word of someone who I only know of through a few random posts. </p> <p>Credibility takes time. Ask me in a year and I might say you're an absolutely reliable source of information. Right now, I don't know you so you're sweeping generalization are gonna get questioned. </p></blockquote> <p>Fair enough then. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437222 Fri, 25 May 2012 09:48:11 +0000 rus 437222@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>DavidF <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437205">said</a>:</cite><br /> And nobody would need to pee in a cup to combat this type of fraud.</p> </blockquote> <p>Because those on public assistance should be spared the indignity of being treated like government employees, employees of government contractors, etc. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437205 Fri, 25 May 2012 09:22:33 +0000 DavidF 437205@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>rus <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437204">said</a>:</cite><br /> Yes.</p> <p>Seems like that estimate has to be low, though. If no one is currently investigating card replacement as possible fraud then such fraud would be undetected and uncounted.</p> <p>Should be simple enough to review transaction history at least. For those with multiple card issuance, compare the zip code of the cardholder to the purchase location. Where the transaction occurred, say, 20+ miles from the cardholders residence flag as suspicious. Further investigation would be required but could narrow down a list of possibles to something manageable. </p></blockquote> <p>And nobody would need to pee in a cup to combat this type of fraud. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437204 Fri, 25 May 2012 09:19:32 +0000 rus 437204@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>Graybeak <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437182">said</a>:</cite><br /> The 1% figure comes from multiple news stories explaining the problem of the SNAP program. That is the estimated figure given by the government agencies themselves. </p></blockquote> <p>Yes.</p> <p>Seems like that estimate has to be low, though. If no one is currently investigating card replacement as possible fraud then such fraud would be undetected and uncounted.</p> <p>Should be simple enough to review transaction history at least. For those with multiple card issuance, compare the zip code of the cardholder to the purchase location. Where the transaction occurred, say, 20+ miles from the cardholders residence flag as suspicious. Further investigation would be required but could narrow down a list of possibles to something manageable. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437195 Fri, 25 May 2012 08:56:38 +0000 DavidF 437195@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>local champion <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437189">said</a>:</cite><br /> 30 yrs of foodstamps tells me its much higher. Being around section 8 neighbors all day tells me its higher. In business you might defer to someone with 30 yrs of experience for his take on a situation when there is no reliable quantitative data available. The same is true in this situation. </p> <p>No one was upset because of your questions; I was upset because of your criminal accusations. I just find it funny you seem to be an advocate for the poor, but when someone that is poor has a different opinion than yours, you vilify them and say they must be a criminal.</p> </blockquote> <p>See, once again you're don't seem to be reading so well. I'm absolutely sure you're telling the truth about your personal, highly anecdotal experience. However, you then seem to want to turn that into a generalization about the pervasiveness of fraud in the system as a whole. I simply want to know where you get this information. </p> <p>Oh, and I didn't vilify a poor person who disagreed with me, I vilified you. (for which I apologized) I have no way of knowing if you are a poor person or not. </p> <p>And in business, I never take the word of someone who I only know of through a few random posts. </p> <p>Credibility takes time. Ask me in a year and I might say you're an absolutely reliable source of information. Right now, I don't know you so you're sweeping generalization are gonna get questioned. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437189 Fri, 25 May 2012 08:45:49 +0000 local champion 437189@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>30 yrs of foodstamps tells me its much higher. Being around section 8 neighbors all day tells me its higher. In business you might defer to someone with 30 yrs of experience for his take on a situation when there is no reliable quantitative data available. The same is true in this situation. </p> <p>No one was upset because of your questions; I was upset because of your criminal accusations. I just find it funny you seem to be an advocate for the poor, but when someone that is poor has a different opinion than yours, you vilify them and say they must be a criminal. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437182 Fri, 25 May 2012 08:37:36 +0000 Graybeak 437182@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>The 1% figure comes from multiple news stories explaining the problem of the SNAP program. That is the estimated figure given by the government agencies themselves. </p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437179 Fri, 25 May 2012 08:23:52 +0000 DavidF 437179@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <blockquote><p><cite>local champion <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/drug-testing-for-ohio-welfare-recipients/page/6#post-437171">said</a>:</cite><br /> Like I said earlier a lot of people are commenting without any knowledge of the system or how it is gamed. If davidf really thinks fraud is at 1%, he is very naive to the workings of government assistance. I guess that is actually a good thing. </p></blockquote> <p>Sigh. I never claimed it was at 1%. Nice try though. </p> <p>I guess you asked for it then. So, tell me, what gives you special insight into the actual amount of fraud in the system. You've claimed no personal knowledge of fraud. So where does your information come from? If you're just talking from your gut, then stop claiming you have inside knowledge of how the system is gamed.</p> <p> I've never claimed any definitive knowledge, and in fact the only thing I have conceded is that it would have to be pretty high to fiscally justify this type of draconian policy and even then I doubt you would save anything across the government as a whole. </p> <p>And please, please don't act victimized again because I had the temerity to question your knowledge. You've shown no hesitation to question mine and keep implying you have some sort of inside knowledge. </p>