http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony ColumbusUnderground.com Messageboard en-US Sun, 12 Feb 2012 07:47:12 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/search.php http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117443 Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:07:39 +0000 Manatee 117443@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>We surely could have used a real orchestra at the James Turrell/Conservatory event tonight, instead of the canned classical that was played. </p><p>I mean, we <em>really</em> could have used it. </p><p>It was so obvious it was almost embarrassing.</p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117442 Fri, 08 Aug 2008 19:44:10 +0000 XLD 117442@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>Thanks for taking the time to gather all the feedback from this site. I'd be interested to hear the general reaction from the musicians.</p><p><blockquote><cite>DTclarinet from linked blog above wrote </cite>CU Ideas for improving the Symphony</p><p> </p><p>Listed here, in no particular order, are what I could glean as constructive ideas and suggestions from several discussions about the CSO at Columbus Underground, a local news and information site where 30 somethings gather to discuss current issues and hang out online. It's obvious that the musicians need to reach out to these up and coming folks, who, despite their feisty attitudes, are eager to support an orchestra which is streamlined and flexible and willing to cater to the tastes of particular crowds.</blockquote></p><p>I'll take the liberty to speak for Walker:</p><p>-he would bristle at any pigeonholing of the site, so not all are 30 something (but probably close enough for your point) and not all are feisty with their attitude.</p><p>And FYI Andrew is off on the <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15876">Pan Ohio Hope Ride</a>, so a reply from him, if at all, might be delayed.</p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117441 Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:49:44 +0000 DTclarinet 117441@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p><blockquote>Long screeds about how the yobs don't appreciate what you are doing is not going to entice anyone to go to the Symphony or start liking Classical music. Alas, that has been the attitude of the whole Classical music edifice since time out of mind. You came here looking for help from us and the CSO needs support. Do really think that berating your potential market is going to do it?</p><p>Perhaps you would have encountered a less acrid tone from us if you had been bothered to read those threads before you posted. Not only is that the courteous thing to do, it would have been more productive. Some of us have spilled a fair amount of electrons on exactly this subject and have no desire to repeat ourselves, especially if you are too lazy to look.</p><p>I appreciate that the snippiness here must be frustrating, but you are in a position of doing market research (and begging). When you are doing market research, you just have to grin and bear it when your product gets attacked. Getting snippy yourself only further derails the process and entices more sarcasm and antics.</p><p>It seems to me that you came here not to get support for the Symphony or listen to any ideas, but to defend the Symphony and engage in the usual harangues about the masses not appreciating Classical music. </blockquote></p><p>Andrew, you chose to see only the tone and not the content of my comment. No, I am not begging, but searching for viable ideas to sell classical music better. I listed in that comment the ideas I found here. I also listed new ideas of how we can improve, offering them for discussion.</p><p>Am I berating my potential market by inquiring of their professions, their expertise and experience in marketing or running a non-profit? Perhaps then I could gage their suggestions with a bit of perspective. If I knew your profession, I may be able to offer some improvements. You never know.</p><p>Am I not justified in defending the symphonic tradition? You don't seem to understand the situation very well. (you will probably take that as condescension) Marketing great music works, but our marketing has sucked. Am I a snob for saying that? Am I a snob for believing that great classical music can be very appealing if people give it a chance?? </p><p>You obviously have the upper hand in the discussions here, and also obviously spend quite a bit of time writing here. I don't take your tone too seriously, but mutual respect would not be that hard for you to initiate. I wrote in that comment "Thank you for the links". And I say it again, thanks for all your ideas.</p><p>I just spent a few hours scouring the long discussions in previous strings. I am listing the best ideas, more or less randomly, at <a href="http://symphonycolumbus.blogspot.com">http://symphonycolumbus.blogspot.com</a></p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117440 Sat, 02 Aug 2008 13:40:53 +0000 ChrisSunami 117440@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p><blockquote><cite>XLD wrote </cite></p><p><blockquote><cite>kitoba wrote </cite>I wanted to go to the Symphony but I couldn't afford tickets.</blockquote></p><p>Cheapest tickets were typically around $18 (half price for students). Upcoming independent shows are $20.</p><p></blockquote></p><p>I was under the impression --wrongly perhaps --that the tickets started around $100. I remember looking into tickets a few years, and the brochure I got only listed tickets in that price range.</p><p>Perhaps part of the reason more people didn't go to the symphony was that the cheaper tickets weren't well publicized. I can't speak for anyone else, but I was definitely convinced that you couldn't get in the door for a $20.</p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117439 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:02:31 +0000 XLD 117439@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p><blockquote><cite>enzo wrote </cite>I listened on WOSU this morning to the situation with the Dayton Philharmonic Orhcestra passing out buy one get one free passes to some neighborhoods in Columbus--I thought that was stepping on toes!!!</blockquote></p><p>This is addressed <a href="http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/life/stories/2008/07/28/1A_CLASSICAL_FIX.ART_ART_07-28-08_D1_C8AR2KO.html?sid=101">here</a></p><p><blockquote><cite>The Columbus Dispatch wrote </cite>The Dayton orchestra recently sent fliers to residents in the western half of Franklin County, but the marketing push was planned, Bukvic said, before the Columbus Symphony concerts were canceled.</p><p>"We would not want to be predatory in any way, shape or form," he said. "I would not want to go in and start raiding a market that's having problems."</p><p>Still, the Dayton Philharmonic would consider a road trip to the state capital if the Columbus Symphony canceled most or all of its next season.</p><p>"I'm sure we'll be actively talking with the Ohio Theatre about doing some concerts there," Bukvic said.</blockquote></p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117438 Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:08:01 +0000 XLD 117438@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p><blockquote><cite>some dude in clintonville wrote </cite>The best seats, in terms of acoustics in the Ohio Theater are the top ones, in the balcony.</blockquote></p><p>Certainly true of the loge/lower balcony. If the acoustics aren't diminished in the very back, then at least the immediacy is lost. Still not bad seats, though.</p><p><blockquote><cite>kitoba wrote </cite>I wanted to go to the Symphony but I couldn't afford tickets.</blockquote></p><p>Cheapest tickets were typically around $18 (half price for students). Upcoming independent shows are $20.</p><p>I'm not saying you are or should be willing/able to afford that, but I wanted to clarify the costs for anyone reading. I sometimes wonder if people assume it's something like $60+ to get in the theater.</p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117437 Thu, 24 Jul 2008 03:25:06 +0000 Walker 117437@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p><blockquote><cite>XLD wrote </cite>edit: actually this website: <a href="http://mcsconcerts.org/" rel="nofollow">http://mcsconcerts.org/</a> is even clearer:</p><p><blockquote><cite>The Musicians of the Columbus Symphony wrote </cite>We are The Musicians of the Columbus Symphony (MCS) in Columbus, Ohio. As members of the Columbus Symphony (CSO), we do have a contract but it was terminated illegally by our management. Hence, we are not performing concerts as members of the CSO (for more information on this, visit our CSO Musicians' home page). However, we believe music is a calling, and telling us we cannot play concerts is like telling us we can no longer eat or breathe! We also know that our audiences greatly miss us and want to hear us perform. So we have decided to set up concerts ourselves.</p><p>As we are no longer employed by the CSO, we are no longer receiving a salary or health insurance benefits. The reason we are selling tickets for these concerts is to pay for MCS operating expenses such as advertising and rental costs, as well as to eventually help pay for our health insurance premiums. Thank you for your support.</blockquote></p><p>Or maybe I misunderstand you, Walker.</blockquote></p><p>That looks like the start of what I was talking about. Pulling it into something a bit more organized was where I was going with it.</p><p>But thanks for posting that link. I had no idea that site existed. :D</p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117436 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 22:16:52 +0000 some dude in clintonville 117436@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p><blockquote><cite>XLD wrote </cite><blockquote><cite>laChewla wrote </cite>An ipod sounds like recorded sound. It sounds like everything you listen to. It is impossible for an orchestral concert to "sound like an ipod." Actually - the ipod is digitally sounding like the orchestra.</blockquote></p><p>I think joev was getting at the quality of the sound you hear and equating the ipod with poor sound quality. <strong>Part of the reason to take in a live performance is to hear the higher quality sound versus a recording - which is diminished when sitting in the cheaper nosebleed seats.</strong></p><p>Or maybe I misunderstand you, Walker.</blockquote>The best seats, in terms of acoustics in the Ohio Theater are the top ones, in the balcony.</p><p>And sorry for sounding a bit brash in my response to joev, but replacing a <em>symphony orchestra</em> with some stupid laser light show doesn't exactly portray the city in the way you seem to believe it would. From the posts here, I'd say a lot of CU'ers don't care for classical music, which is unfortunate. Just do yourselves a favor: whenever the CSO comes back (I know it will), go to a show when they do <em>The Rite of Spring</em> by Stravinsky. You will not regret it.</p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117435 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:50:38 +0000 ChrisSunami 117435@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>I wanted to go to the Symphony but I couldn't afford tickets.</p><p>I've been wondering --if the problem is the management (and I don't know whether it is or not), why don't the musicians reform a new, self-run orchestra? Admittedly artists are usually not great administrators, but someone out of the orchestra has got to have a talent for organizing...</p><p>EDIT: sorry, looks like that was the point of the previous post... :oops:</p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117434 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:18:12 +0000 XLD 117434@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p><blockquote><cite>laChewla wrote </cite>An ipod sounds like recorded sound. It sounds like everything you listen to. It is impossible for an orchestral concert to "sound like an ipod." Actually - the ipod is digitally sounding like the orchestra.</blockquote></p><p>I think joev was getting at the quality of the sound you hear and equating the ipod with poor sound quality. Part of the reason to take in a live performance is to hear the higher quality sound versus a recording - which is diminished when sitting in the cheaper nosebleed seats.</p><p>+1 to the rest of your post regarding spontaneity</p><p><blockquote><cite>rocketmastermike wrote </cite>...</blockquote></p><p>I agree with pretty much all of his post above, which I won't repeat here, but wanted to say that good points were made.</p><p><blockquote><cite>Walker wrote </cite>Do they have the facilities here for recording?</blockquote></p><p>They did a recording over the blizzard weekend for Japanese release for Hirokami's fans. They also record the concerts for WOSU. I can't speak to the quality of the recordings.</p><p><blockquote><cite>Walker wrote </cite>Hell, if the symphony can put on shows without the CSO operating this summer, then why aren't they already working on a plan to regroup and refocus.</blockquote></p><p>All these independent concerts make me think they are working on regrouping - or showing that they can.</p><p>edit: actually this website: <a href="http://mcsconcerts.org/" rel="nofollow">http://mcsconcerts.org/</a> is even clearer:</p><p><blockquote><cite>The Musicians of the Columbus Symphony wrote </cite>We are The Musicians of the Columbus Symphony (MCS) in Columbus, Ohio. As members of the Columbus Symphony (CSO), we do have a contract but it was terminated illegally by our management. Hence, we are not performing concerts as members of the CSO (for more information on this, visit our CSO Musicians' home page). However, we believe music is a calling, and telling us we cannot play concerts is like telling us we can no longer eat or breathe! We also know that our audiences greatly miss us and want to hear us perform. So we have decided to set up concerts ourselves.</p><p>As we are no longer employed by the CSO, we are no longer receiving a salary or health insurance benefits. The reason we are selling tickets for these concerts is to pay for MCS operating expenses such as advertising and rental costs, as well as to eventually help pay for our health insurance premiums. Thank you for your support.</blockquote></p><p>Or maybe I misunderstand you, Walker.</p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117433 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:14:23 +0000 Walker 117433@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>From what little research I've done, other large cities who have recently lost their symphonic organizations have had them re-born into other institutions shortly after.</p><p>I don't think anyone wants to see the symphony go away in Columbus, but perhaps a change in structure is what is needed. </p><p>Hell, if the symphony can put on shows without the CSO operating this summer, then why aren't they already working on a plan to regroup and refocus.</p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117432 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:46:31 +0000 joev 117432@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p><blockquote><cite>some dude in clintonville wrote </cite><blockquote><cite>joev wrote </cite>There's no logic in that argument. Just because every other major city has an orchestra, Columbus doesn't NEED one. We need to have something different, something better, and something that broad segments of Central Ohioans WANT to attend. In my experience, 1/3 of the attendees at an orchestra performance are there because they want to be, 1/3 are there because someone else wants them to be and 1/3 are there because they feel like they should be cultured enough to enjoy it (but don't.)</p><p>Something more proletarian would be nice. Something like a permanent Pink Floyd laser lights show would probably do really well.</blockquote>I've never read anything more idiotic.</blockquote></p><p>Well then tell me WHY we need a symphony (as opposed to a different, innovative musical institution.) Admittedly, I would never attend a Pink Floyd laser lights show, but damn, those things are popular.</p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117431 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:22:39 +0000 some dude in clintonville 117431@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p><blockquote><cite>joev wrote </cite>There's no logic in that argument. Just because every other major city has an orchestra, Columbus doesn't NEED one. We need to have something different, something better, and something that broad segments of Central Ohioans WANT to attend. In my experience, 1/3 of the attendees at an orchestra performance are there because they want to be, 1/3 are there because someone else wants them to be and 1/3 are there because they feel like they should be cultured enough to enjoy it (but don't.)</p><p>Something more proletarian would be nice. Something like a permanent Pink Floyd laser lights show would probably do really well.</blockquote>I've never read anything more idiotic.</p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117430 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:21:56 +0000 Walker 117430@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p><blockquote><cite>catnfiddle wrote </cite>Has CSO ever had or sought a recording contract? That was one of the major ways my former home town orchestra has been able to keep afloat over the years.</blockquote></p><p>Do they have the facilities here for recording? I recall reading something about the Lincoln Theater being set up with some sort of recording and broadcasting facility that the other theaters don't have, but even that space might not be large enough.</p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117429 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:44:54 +0000 lifeliberty 117429@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>on one hand supporting the arts is great.</p><p>OTOH, if no one really wants to go to the shows and pay for it to survive, is it really worth saving? People pay for what they want. where they spend their money shows their choices.</p><p>yeah, yeah, yeah, economic times are tough and normally the first thing to get hit is the arts, but people are still going out to bars and movies and theatre shows, just not out to see CSO. That tells you something right there.</p><p>I like the orchestras I've seen at the Ohio Theatre, but it can be really boring. And for the price you pay there are more entertaining options out there, like opera or bars or bowling or movies.</p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117428 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:29:16 +0000 catnfiddle 117428@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>Has CSO ever had or sought a recording contract? That was one of the major ways my former home town orchestra has been able to keep afloat over the years.</p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117427 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:09:22 +0000 enzo 117427@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>I guess I did not realize or pay close enough attention (hard to pay attention to everything all the time) and I do not want to offend anyone, but gosh, when I have gone to CSO events it seems so stale. Needs a shot in the arm....have the High Jinks folks come spin some poi or do something else....maybe it was the particular shows I went to but they were sleepy.</p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony/page/2#post-117426 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 03:07:25 +0000 Rockmastermike 117426@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p><blockquote><cite>laChewla wrote </cite></p><p>Spontaneity = live performance. Just because a certain form of music comes printed on music and is rehearsed before performance doesn't mean it lacks spontaneity. When a first violin snaps a string during a performance, or the conductor raises the tempo suddenly, or a solo is played in a beautiful, lyrical fashion that could never be EXACTLY repeated again...yeah. That would be pretty spontaneous in my book.</p><p>As far as words go... *hmph* I have none for you on this, buddy.</blockquote></p><p> Yep. There is a lot of interpretation that goes into a performance of any piece, even one that was written 200 years ago. That many cannot appreciate the subtleties of interpretation hidden within a symphony concert is a product of what we are used to from other entertainments. I am guessing it has been like this forever and is really nothing new. There ARE still a lot of people who do appreciate it and go to the symphony. The fact that they have trouble filling a massive hall like the ohio theater says they should probably play venues sized to their audience. Few symphonies play in halls that big.</p><p> CSO's problems are due mostly to mismanagement and not a lack of an appreciative audience in columbus. Playing a hall that is too expensive, mismanagement of administrative compensation (non profits shouldn't be cash-cows for their managers), a reputation of management for being inflexible, etc.</p><p> As someone who was raised with classical music, and loves the art form, my personal beef has been that our symphony seems to be mostly a pops orchestra and doesn't often perform pieces that interest me. I have gone to a number of lovely performances over the years, but it seems that a lot of the time when I look at going to the symphony it's "Mozarts greatest hits"... AGAIN. </p><p>That being said I understand the need to get butts in seats and give people what they want and every year CSO does do at least one solid night of something really interesting. My officemate greatly enjoyed the "Organ" this year, and I was sorry that I had to miss Mahler's symphony #2. I suspect finding a smaller and more affordable venue to call home might allow a more ambitious selection without worrying as much about filling so many seats.</p><p>Overall I am very sorry to see the current state of things having deteriorated this far.</p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony#post-117425 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:58:22 +0000 Andrew Hall 117425@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p>Long screeds about how the yobs don't appreciate what you are doing is not going to entice anyone to go to the Symphony or start liking Classical music. Alas, that has been the attitude of the whole Classical music edifice since time out of mind. You came here looking for help from us and the CSO needs support. Do really think that berating your potential market is going to do it? </p><p>Perhaps you would have encountered a less acrid tone from us if you had been bothered to read those threads <em>before</em> you posted. Not only is that the courteous thing to do, it would have been more productive. Some of us have spilled a fair amount of electrons on exactly this subject and have no desire to repeat ourselves, especially if you are too lazy to look.</p><p>I appreciate that the snippiness here must be frustrating, but you are in a position of doing market research (and begging). When you are doing market research, you just have to grin and bear it when your product gets attacked. Getting snippy yourself only further derails the process and entices more sarcasm and antics. </p><p>It seems to me that you came here not to get support for the Symphony or listen to any ideas, but to defend the Symphony and engage in the usual harangues about the masses not appreciating Classical music. </p><p>A.</p> http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/columbus-needs-a-symphony#post-117424 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:14:55 +0000 laChewla 117424@http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/ <p><blockquote><cite>joev wrote </cite></p><p>You're one of the few people who has a real stake in whether the CSO comes back or not. It should now be quite obvious to you that classical music, while still a beautiful art form, is not a commercially viable business in Columbus. I think that probably has something to do with the fact that you lose a whole lot of the magic of the live music experience when there are no words, no spontaneity and you sit up in the nosebleed section and it sounds just like an iPod.</p><p></blockquote></p><p>Damn. I think there's a misunderstanding here - perhaps we can talk this one out in person.</p><p>An ipod sounds like recorded sound. It sounds like everything you listen to. It is impossible for an orchestral concert to "sound like an ipod." Actually - the ipod is digitally sounding like the orchestra.</p><p>Spontaneity = live performance. Just because a certain form of music comes printed on music and is rehearsed before performance doesn't mean it lacks spontaneity. When a first violin snaps a string during a performance, or the conductor raises the tempo suddenly, or a solo is played in a beautiful, lyrical fashion that could never be EXACTLY repeated again...yeah. That would be pretty spontaneous in my book.</p><p>As far as words go... *hmph* I have none for you on this, buddy.</p>