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	<title>Comments on: CU Podcast #33: Casino-Free Columbus</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/cu-podcast-33-casino-free-columbus/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.columbusunderground.com/cu-podcast-33-casino-free-columbus</link>
	<description>News, opinions and reviews on all things Columbus, Ohio.</description>
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		<title>By: Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.columbusunderground.com/cu-podcast-33-casino-free-columbus/comment-page-4#comment-93929</link>
		<dc:creator>Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 05:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.columbusunderground.com/?p=10081#comment-93929</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Jody. ;) Glad you enjoyed it. It&#039;s been one of our most often-listened podcasts so far. I guess I need Chuck to kick chairs around in all of our audio recording sessions from now on. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Jody. ;) Glad you enjoyed it. It&#8217;s been one of our most often-listened podcasts so far. I guess I need Chuck to kick chairs around in all of our audio recording sessions from now on. ;)</p>
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		<title>By: jodyNcolumbus</title>
		<link>http://www.columbusunderground.com/cu-podcast-33-casino-free-columbus/comment-page-4#comment-93922</link>
		<dc:creator>jodyNcolumbus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 02:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.columbusunderground.com/?p=10081#comment-93922</guid>
		<description>This podcast was excellent, really spelled out the points that the Casino Free Columbus &#039;idea&#039; stands for.  I am totally behind this initiative.    It sounds like window signs are coming.  What else can we do?   I&#039;d love to help organize a 5K walk/parade that walks to the proposed Casino area and create awareness of the Casino Free issue.   (Costumes encouraged)!

I have an analogy for the statewide decision that would best be depicted in a cartoon, but alas, I have only words here.  Picture the 4 cities as kids at a table - Cincinnati gets a cupcake, Cleveland gets a slice of pizza. Toledo gets a Chili Dog and Columbus gets a Sh*t sandwhich.  So, just because the other 3 like what they have been offered, we have to eat  this crappy choice?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This podcast was excellent, really spelled out the points that the Casino Free Columbus &#8216;idea&#8217; stands for.  I am totally behind this initiative.    It sounds like window signs are coming.  What else can we do?   I&#8217;d love to help organize a 5K walk/parade that walks to the proposed Casino area and create awareness of the Casino Free issue.   (Costumes encouraged)!</p>
<p>I have an analogy for the statewide decision that would best be depicted in a cartoon, but alas, I have only words here.  Picture the 4 cities as kids at a table &#8211; Cincinnati gets a cupcake, Cleveland gets a slice of pizza. Toledo gets a Chili Dog and Columbus gets a Sh*t sandwhich.  So, just because the other 3 like what they have been offered, we have to eat  this crappy choice?</p>
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		<title>By: Klablut</title>
		<link>http://www.columbusunderground.com/cu-podcast-33-casino-free-columbus/comment-page-4#comment-93847</link>
		<dc:creator>Klablut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 06:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.columbusunderground.com/?p=10081#comment-93847</guid>
		<description>And how much did crime increase when all the bars opened up in Coleman&#039;s &quot;family friendly&quot; destination of the arena district?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And how much did crime increase when all the bars opened up in Coleman&#8217;s &#8220;family friendly&#8221; destination of the arena district?</p>
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		<title>By: DavidF</title>
		<link>http://www.columbusunderground.com/cu-podcast-33-casino-free-columbus/comment-page-4#comment-93842</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.columbusunderground.com/?p=10081#comment-93842</guid>
		<description>@mrmonnin. Do you feel that way about the casino issue itself? After all, it wasn&#039;t the first, second, or even third time the casinos have come back after being rebuffed by the voters. How is this any different?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@mrmonnin. Do you feel that way about the casino issue itself? After all, it wasn&#8217;t the first, second, or even third time the casinos have come back after being rebuffed by the voters. How is this any different?</p>
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		<title>By: Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.columbusunderground.com/cu-podcast-33-casino-free-columbus/comment-page-4#comment-93839</link>
		<dc:creator>Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 00:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.columbusunderground.com/?p=10081#comment-93839</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think anyone is seriously advocating that the opposition should work outside the political system. Laws get rewritten or unwritten all the time. That&#039;s the beauty of our political system, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone is seriously advocating that the opposition should work outside the political system. Laws get rewritten or unwritten all the time. That&#8217;s the beauty of our political system, right?</p>
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		<title>By: mrmonnin</title>
		<link>http://www.columbusunderground.com/cu-podcast-33-casino-free-columbus/comment-page-4#comment-93832</link>
		<dc:creator>mrmonnin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.columbusunderground.com/?p=10081#comment-93832</guid>
		<description>I think it is interesting that a minority is trying to subvert the political process and virtually steal the votes that enacted this amendment.  If you were so passionate, why were not you able to campaign successfully to vote in the direction you want this to go in?  I would imagine that Wilmington would be willing to have a casino.  Sell them the right to have Columbus&#039; casino.  Work within the political system or move to France.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is interesting that a minority is trying to subvert the political process and virtually steal the votes that enacted this amendment.  If you were so passionate, why were not you able to campaign successfully to vote in the direction you want this to go in?  I would imagine that Wilmington would be willing to have a casino.  Sell them the right to have Columbus&#8217; casino.  Work within the political system or move to France.</p>
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		<title>By: Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.columbusunderground.com/cu-podcast-33-casino-free-columbus/comment-page-4#comment-93813</link>
		<dc:creator>Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 20:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.columbusunderground.com/?p=10081#comment-93813</guid>
		<description>Heh. The pun wasn&#039;t intended. Guess I use that phase too much. ;)

Anyway, I&#039;m not saying that this was something premeditated by Penn &amp; Plaza. I&#039;m saying that when Penn came to the table and offered to buy the land from Plaza, I&#039;m sure that they were fully aware of the fact that Plaza had already been awarded those cleanup grants for developing the land for other purposes. My &quot;shame on them&quot; was directed toward both of them for moving forward with their deal anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh. The pun wasn&#8217;t intended. Guess I use that phase too much. ;)</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m not saying that this was something premeditated by Penn &amp; Plaza. I&#8217;m saying that when Penn came to the table and offered to buy the land from Plaza, I&#8217;m sure that they were fully aware of the fact that Plaza had already been awarded those cleanup grants for developing the land for other purposes. My &#8220;shame on them&#8221; was directed toward both of them for moving forward with their deal anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Core_Models</title>
		<link>http://www.columbusunderground.com/cu-podcast-33-casino-free-columbus/comment-page-4#comment-93812</link>
		<dc:creator>Core_Models</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 20:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.columbusunderground.com/?p=10081#comment-93812</guid>
		<description>LOL...you&#039;re willing to bet???  Come on now, &quot;you&#039;d like to believe&quot; may be a better way to phrase that, as I see absolutely zero evidence that Penn was in collusion with Plaza in accepting clean up grants, promise to build parks, etc.

If someone can provide even a sampling of evidence that Plaza was planning to sell to Penn when they applied for the grant AND that Penn knew it...great.  Otherwise there&#039;s not even much smoke, let alone fire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL&#8230;you&#8217;re willing to bet???  Come on now, &#8220;you&#8217;d like to believe&#8221; may be a better way to phrase that, as I see absolutely zero evidence that Penn was in collusion with Plaza in accepting clean up grants, promise to build parks, etc.</p>
<p>If someone can provide even a sampling of evidence that Plaza was planning to sell to Penn when they applied for the grant AND that Penn knew it&#8230;great.  Otherwise there&#8217;s not even much smoke, let alone fire.</p>
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		<title>By: Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.columbusunderground.com/cu-podcast-33-casino-free-columbus/comment-page-4#comment-93811</link>
		<dc:creator>Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 20:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.columbusunderground.com/?p=10081#comment-93811</guid>
		<description>Core, I wholeheartedly agree with point #1. 

As for point #2, it sounds like both Penn &amp; Plaza should get a bit of finger wagging about this. It takes two parties to make a deal, and I&#039;m willing to bet that both parties were aware of the bait-and-switch that they were pulling. &quot;Shame on both of them&quot; as far as I&#039;m concerned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Core, I wholeheartedly agree with point #1. </p>
<p>As for point #2, it sounds like both Penn &amp; Plaza should get a bit of finger wagging about this. It takes two parties to make a deal, and I&#8217;m willing to bet that both parties were aware of the bait-and-switch that they were pulling. &#8220;Shame on both of them&#8221; as far as I&#8217;m concerned.</p>
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		<title>By: Core_Models</title>
		<link>http://www.columbusunderground.com/cu-podcast-33-casino-free-columbus/comment-page-3#comment-93810</link>
		<dc:creator>Core_Models</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.columbusunderground.com/?p=10081#comment-93810</guid>
		<description>1. I think this sounds like one of the more solid legal approaches to fighting this, or at least this location.

2. I&#039;m not sure I get how this is a bad faith maneuver by Penn National.  They didn&#039;t make a pledge to develop condos there, get a grant to clean up the pollution there, etc.  Once again, trying to portray Penn as the bad guy comes off a bit dubious.  You want to take issue with Plaza Properties, do it...their behavior seems downright fraudulent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. I think this sounds like one of the more solid legal approaches to fighting this, or at least this location.</p>
<p>2. I&#8217;m not sure I get how this is a bad faith maneuver by Penn National.  They didn&#8217;t make a pledge to develop condos there, get a grant to clean up the pollution there, etc.  Once again, trying to portray Penn as the bad guy comes off a bit dubious.  You want to take issue with Plaza Properties, do it&#8230;their behavior seems downright fraudulent.</p>
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		<title>By: Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.columbusunderground.com/cu-podcast-33-casino-free-columbus/comment-page-3#comment-93809</link>
		<dc:creator>Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 18:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.columbusunderground.com/?p=10081#comment-93809</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Mayor, council president serve voters by fighting casino in Arena District&lt;/strong&gt;
Sunday,  November 29, 2009

&lt;em&gt;Penn National obtained an option to buy the Jaeger site from Plaza Properties, which only last year obtained a $750,000 state grant to demolish the factory and clean up the property, on a promise to build condominiums and retail outlets on the site. The Ohio Department of Development, on a recommendation from the city, awarded the Clean Ohio Assistance Fund grant to allow Plaza Properties to clean up pollution from more than 70 years of manufacturing.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Plaza Properties pledged to develop 243 condominiums, 15,000 square feet of retail space and a small park. After Penn National announced its plan to build a casino there instead, state and city officials said they could do nothing about the bait-and-switch.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2009/11/29/badcas.ART_ART_11-29-09_G4_AOFQ8QR.html?sid=101&quot;&gt;READ MORE&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Mayor, council president serve voters by fighting casino in Arena District</strong><br />
Sunday,  November 29, 2009</p>
<p><em>Penn National obtained an option to buy the Jaeger site from Plaza Properties, which only last year obtained a $750,000 state grant to demolish the factory and clean up the property, on a promise to build condominiums and retail outlets on the site. The Ohio Department of Development, on a recommendation from the city, awarded the Clean Ohio Assistance Fund grant to allow Plaza Properties to clean up pollution from more than 70 years of manufacturing.</em></p>
<p><em>Plaza Properties pledged to develop 243 condominiums, 15,000 square feet of retail space and a small park. After Penn National announced its plan to build a casino there instead, state and city officials said they could do nothing about the bait-and-switch.</em></p>
<p><a href="http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2009/11/29/badcas.ART_ART_11-29-09_G4_AOFQ8QR.html?sid=101">READ MORE</a></p>
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		<title>By: deraj1013</title>
		<link>http://www.columbusunderground.com/cu-podcast-33-casino-free-columbus/comment-page-3#comment-93805</link>
		<dc:creator>deraj1013</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 13:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.columbusunderground.com/?p=10081#comment-93805</guid>
		<description>Here is an Op-Ed by Ted Celeste...

Casinos&#039; attempt to skirt local zoning restrictions troubling

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2009/11/29/celeste29.ART_ART_11-29-09_G5_A2FQOGV.html?sid=101</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is an Op-Ed by Ted Celeste&#8230;</p>
<p>Casinos&#8217; attempt to skirt local zoning restrictions troubling</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2009/11/29/celeste29.ART_ART_11-29-09_G5_A2FQOGV.html?sid=101" rel="nofollow">http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2009/11/29/celeste29.ART_ART_11-29-09_G5_A2FQOGV.html?sid=101</a></p>
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		<title>By: Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.columbusunderground.com/cu-podcast-33-casino-free-columbus/comment-page-3#comment-93803</link>
		<dc:creator>Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 02:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.columbusunderground.com/?p=10081#comment-93803</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;../forums/profile/dreamweaver646&quot;&gt;dreamweaver646&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/cite&gt; Says: While there were certainly discussions going on here on CU and elsewhere, there didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t seem to be any real action or effort.  Its only now that the issue has passed that everyone gets fired up and wants to change the result. &lt;/em&gt;
&lt;div id=&quot;edit-comment93794&quot; class=&quot;edit-comment&quot;&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think part of the problem is that this was a statewide vote on what I think a lot of people feel is really more of a local issue in four cities. No amount of banging the oppositional drum in Columbus was going to change how people felt in the far-flung counties throughout the state. Central Ohio voted no, so there wasn&#039;t a whole lot of reason for the locals to get fired up when the local majority was against it to begin with. Now that it&#039;s passed at the state level, I think it makes perfect sense for locals to take the proper legal/legislative/grassroots actions to retroactively block what the local majority doesn&#039;t want.&lt;/p&gt;
I thought the great thing about our whole governmental process is that it always allows for change. If people want to start a movement and make some change, and the majority of the public is behind them, then what&#039;s the problem?
&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em><cite><a href="../forums/profile/dreamweaver646">dreamweaver646</a></cite> Says: While there were certainly discussions going on here on CU and elsewhere, there didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t seem to be any real action or effort.  Its only now that the issue has passed that everyone gets fired up and wants to change the result. </em></p>
<div id="edit-comment93794" class="edit-comment">
<p>I think part of the problem is that this was a statewide vote on what I think a lot of people feel is really more of a local issue in four cities. No amount of banging the oppositional drum in Columbus was going to change how people felt in the far-flung counties throughout the state. Central Ohio voted no, so there wasn&#8217;t a whole lot of reason for the locals to get fired up when the local majority was against it to begin with. Now that it&#8217;s passed at the state level, I think it makes perfect sense for locals to take the proper legal/legislative/grassroots actions to retroactively block what the local majority doesn&#8217;t want.</p>
<p>I thought the great thing about our whole governmental process is that it always allows for change. If people want to start a movement and make some change, and the majority of the public is behind them, then what&#8217;s the problem?
</p></div>
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		<title>By: JonMyers</title>
		<link>http://www.columbusunderground.com/cu-podcast-33-casino-free-columbus/comment-page-3#comment-93801</link>
		<dc:creator>JonMyers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 00:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.columbusunderground.com/?p=10081#comment-93801</guid>
		<description>Who is attacking you? You can throw ten more ten dollar words at it. You said you &quot;don&#039;t care&quot;.. You&#039;re the big shot who&#039;s above all this because your moving. Yet, you&#039;re investing your time in this conversation.

I don&#039;t have to continue to explain myself to you pal.

Our goal is to stop the casino from being built. Allegations of political corruption are not the smoking gun to make that happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who is attacking you? You can throw ten more ten dollar words at it. You said you &#8220;don&#8217;t care&#8221;.. You&#8217;re the big shot who&#8217;s above all this because your moving. Yet, you&#8217;re investing your time in this conversation.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have to continue to explain myself to you pal.</p>
<p>Our goal is to stop the casino from being built. Allegations of political corruption are not the smoking gun to make that happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Brent</title>
		<link>http://www.columbusunderground.com/cu-podcast-33-casino-free-columbus/comment-page-3#comment-93800</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.columbusunderground.com/?p=10081#comment-93800</guid>
		<description>Hooray for circular/ad-hominem arguments! Here&#039;s my timeline since apparently I haven&#039;t made it clear.


I didn&#039;t follow the issue from the get-go because I knew it was controversial and I knew I&#039;d be moving. I didn&#039;t vote on it because I knew I wouldn&#039;t benefit/suffer from whatever the result.


I read The Other Paper article about your concerns and became intrigued. I read the posts and threads here that I&#039;d previously ignored. I was not interested initially, I am now.


From reading the back and forth here, many people were opposed from the beginning for a variety of reasons. Post-election, much of that opposition has turned into crying, name-calling, and NIMBY bitching with little of a cogent argument to be found. Some posters, Andrew Hall in particular, have made excellent, rational arguments in opposition. You however, have become the &quot;figurehead&quot; of this thing whether you like it or not so I&#039;ve directed my comments at you.


Many of your arguments have included hints or allegations of corruption outside of the usual grey area in politics. I&#039;ve asked you repeatedly to state exactly what you know and what these things are. You have deferred, refused, and essentially been unable to do so. Now you&#039;re resorting to personal attacks (not particularly mean ones fwiw, no biggie) but still haven&#039;t shed any light on exactly what you&#039;re getting at.


All I can conclude is that you missed your political window, are pissed and/or regretful, and now are bitching and moaning and trying to subvert the political will of the majority of Ohioans because your desired outcome lost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hooray for circular/ad-hominem arguments! Here&#8217;s my timeline since apparently I haven&#8217;t made it clear.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t follow the issue from the get-go because I knew it was controversial and I knew I&#8217;d be moving. I didn&#8217;t vote on it because I knew I wouldn&#8217;t benefit/suffer from whatever the result.</p>
<p>I read The Other Paper article about your concerns and became intrigued. I read the posts and threads here that I&#8217;d previously ignored. I was not interested initially, I am now.</p>
<p>From reading the back and forth here, many people were opposed from the beginning for a variety of reasons. Post-election, much of that opposition has turned into crying, name-calling, and NIMBY bitching with little of a cogent argument to be found. Some posters, Andrew Hall in particular, have made excellent, rational arguments in opposition. You however, have become the &#8220;figurehead&#8221; of this thing whether you like it or not so I&#8217;ve directed my comments at you.</p>
<p>Many of your arguments have included hints or allegations of corruption outside of the usual grey area in politics. I&#8217;ve asked you repeatedly to state exactly what you know and what these things are. You have deferred, refused, and essentially been unable to do so. Now you&#8217;re resorting to personal attacks (not particularly mean ones fwiw, no biggie) but still haven&#8217;t shed any light on exactly what you&#8217;re getting at.</p>
<p>All I can conclude is that you missed your political window, are pissed and/or regretful, and now are bitching and moaning and trying to subvert the political will of the majority of Ohioans because your desired outcome lost.</p>
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