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The Alive wrote
Rail road
By John Ross
May 22, 2008
Modern streetcars are similar in spirit — though not in appearance or functionality — to the trolleys that lined Columbus streets before being ripped up starting in 1933.
Of the 15 largest metropolitan areas in the United States, only Columbus, San Antonio and Indianapolis lack some system of rail-based transit, according to Alive research.
Benefits, proponents say, are many: decreased dependence on cars, increased commercial development along routes, a boost in tourism, and a better image projected to companies and young professionals the city strives to attract.
“The subway system in New York started with one line,” said Walker Evans, founder of ColumbusUnderground.com and a leading civic advocate for streetcars. “By starting small and using this unique funding package, it could get the ball rolling without increasing taxes. I think once people get a taste of streetcars, they’ll be more likely to support something regional.”
Comments
- itinerantfoodie: Not one mention of Huntington Park or their sparse advertising. (Seriously
- Liz Samuelson: Why can't they just pay someone to do it versus a contest? I really like t
- RichLauro: Awesome! Good for Justin and best wishes!!
- Liz Samuelson: @jpizzow – Thank you for the compliment, yes lots of potential and lots o
- Taz Devil: Oh, and it should be finished soon considering that they work late into the
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I just had an “aha moment”. What about gambling street cars? You’re rolling down high street in a cushy street car with purple velvet interiors, gold leaf around the windows gettin your gamble on. The gambling revenues would pay for the operation and expansion of the street cars.
Let’s get strippers too. There will be floor to ceiling stainless steel poles anyway, and they will really boost ridership.
Daz. Not at all. I love being in this city. I guess my point is that there is an opportunity to learn from past mistakes, which isn’t being explored. I like being downtown and in the Short North because it is one of the only areas in the city that doesn’t feel like it caught a case of the “mall culture”. I’m actually for the streetcar if they get their act together with the proper planning and forethought. If they don’t, I’m convinced this area will catch a case of the “mall culture”.
Man, when people say things like that, it makes me just want to give up on the city in general.
Agreed. I can’t have that look on things or else I dont see the point in even trying. I believe things become boring/GHETTOfied when people are resistant to change. People’s tastes change, unless your business does it will go down the tubes.
I just had an “aha moment”. What about gambling street cars? You’re rolling down high street in a cushy street car with purple velvet interiors, gold leaf around the windows gettin your gamble on. The gambling revenues would pay for the operation and expansion of the street cars.
Let’s get strippers too. There will be floor to ceiling stainless steel poles anyway, and they will really boost ridership.
I’m in. Main difference instead of the streetcar bringing me to my destination, my destination will be the streetcar.
City Center Casino could be the main drop off point.
I’ve just gotta say this.
Comparing the Short North to South Lake Union is absolutely insane. I’m behind the street car in both places, but these are two HIGHLY different areas of towns.
The type of money that the big businesses bring in those areas of Seattle barely depends on foot traffic and out of the places that did, I can only think of a couple of restaurants, and a gigantic porn store.
So we need more big businesses in place of SN businesses around here? Maybe those businesses had more lobbying power in the first place. Not sure of your point.
It wasn’t the big businesses that kept the small businesses going in Seattle. It was the government via a grant.
Businesses along the street car line would have had around 3 years to prepare for the construction phase. If a company can’t figure out how to survive that period and goes under, I wouldn’t feel bad for them at all. They would have had plenty of time to adapt to possible conditions. If a business can’t adapt to change, there’s not much hope anyways. Something else will happen to cause their demise. That is inevitable. Churn is inevitable.
Opposing additional transit options along high street out of fear and self-preservation is deplorable to those in the community that would benefit from it. The same community your obviously depending on.
I’d love to see some of the other small business owners in these forums put up. I don’t know anyone who would give up a year’s income for a street car that might bring more people to the area. I certainly wouldn’t.
There is a lot of talk on these streetcar threads about “getting people educated” on street cars. I’d love to see a proportionate effort dedicated to educating people about business.
Roland, I know you to be a super nice guy personally so I’ll keep my knee-jerk reactions to myself on this one.
All of this talk about adapting our businesses is ridiculous. There are not many businesses with the cash necessary to adapt to a year or more of no business. I’ve already said that I don’t believe there are other neighborhoods that we can just adapt to, so what exactly do you expect us to do Roland? Adapt ourselves to bankruptcy?
As for saying we’re deplorable for resisting transit options; calling me deplorable (I mean lets not try and avoid who we’re talking about) makes me feel a little better about what I felt like saying… We aren’t talking about a transit option. Even from the city, we’re talking about an economic development tool that, whenever anyone dares question the economic development, you all act like we want Columbus to turn into a big suburb.
Every indication I’ve seen is that because of the segmented nature of construction, the effects would be far from this description for any given business.
Every indication I’ve seen is that because of the segmented nature of construction, the effects would be far from this description for any given business.
I hear ya. I’ve had indications that spell out exactly the opposite, which is why I can’t ethically support the proposal on the table. The data is out there. I’d be happy to see some real data not the information supplied by the contractor on this point so we can put it to rest.
Tiger, do you know if the $2 million study that is stalled would have any scope over effect on business? I strongly believe that the Short North will only become more popular (at least in the time frame being discussed for construction) and after construction I see this tremendously increasing YOUR business. To me it looks like Coleman wants your economic development and mostly all you do is bitch. I mean there are 22 of these things sitting around that seem to be successful. Perhaps this will be very good for Tigertree (the store.) Gas is only going to get more expensive, and as it does, it won’t matter that you have parking in front if no one from the burbs will drive there. Moreover, preemptively, yes I think we need light rail, this is a start and we tried a bond for light rail, which failed miserably.
Where is this idea of giving up a year’s income coming from? Is this the scenario where High St suddenly disappears? Explain.
If a majority of my revenue was from street traffic, and I believed that street traffic could be in jeopardy. I’d be looking to diversify where that revenue was coming from. I know Tigertree gets his stuff out there to shops in other cities. This is a good example. Maybe expanding online presence is another? Or however a business would grow its sales.
Sorry about my comments being pointed. Tigertree is the most vocal of the store owners opposing the High St streetcar line. I live in the proposed benefit zone.
There is plenty of time to prepare for the perceived risks.
So the new thing I’m getting from this thread is that
1) A business owner in the SN and one other poster are concerned about the immediate impact of the streetcar on existing businesses
2) Pro-streetcar people respond with no answers but are pretty sure it’ll be OK…cuz…y’know…it’s streetcar!!!! What’s your problem???
This attitude is the biggest turnoff to me of the streetcar: dishonesty and lack of reality from its backers.
There was one thread where the big plus for a streetcar was property values rising 300% (!!!!!)
Now on this thread I’m told that rents will not jump up fast (???)
Really? property values shoot through the roof but rents will not follow?
C’mon streetcar folks…if you want to make believers out of skeptics, this malarkey is no way to do it.
It’s always seemed to me like Coleman is more concerned with a legacy project than anything.
You guys are going in the same circle again and again. Tigertree has some legitimate concern about how his business will get through a really tight time and most of you seem to be of the opinion that if his business fails, it will largely be because he’s a bad businessman and didn’t plan sufficiently for this. I think a lot of you would be singing a different tune if you owned a small start-up business that had this coming at you like a freight train (or trolley car, take your pick :wink: )
I think Walker makes a good point though. If you want the city to do something for the stores in the short north, get on it and start asking for it. Personally, I think they’ll ignore you but it couldn’t hurt to try.
I am bored with myself making the same arguments but…
I am not just bitching when I talk about grants and no interest loans other cities offered businesses. I am not just bitching when I talk about the entire district that failed in portland because they removed the metered parking, I am not sitting on my ass bitching (as Walker implies) when I am speaking to the economic development commission in every city that has recently constructed a street car. Or perhaps when I am finding out data like what college students have, on average, to spend every month. Zettler isn’t bitching when he talks about how the study that all of this development speak is based on says retail will not see a benefit.
The people that will benefit are our landlords and the city. I get it. I don’t expect anyone to fight for me on this one. My landlords property value skyrockets. The city gets more taxes from him. The city gets more sales tax from the gap than from me. The college students get to come down for happy hour.
I am taking a break from the Underground for a while. Your minds are all made up. We aren’t having a discussion any more.
There is plenty of time to prepare for the perceived risks.
I think Tigertree is more concerned about the actual risks.
I know I would be concerned, and I don’t think a 100% change of business plan is a legitimate way to tell someone the streetcar is OK for them too.
I understand the statement that no one is going to do this for the SN business owners. Obviously, they need to come up with a plan that will help them through this process.
I think that is exactly what Tigertree is doing. He seems to be taking initiative to understand the problems facing his business and doing everything he can to avoid them. If that means fighting against the streetcar, then that’s what he has to do. In one breath people say he should do what it takes to get by and in the next breath call him a bad citizen for doing just that.
I would think most of the supporters of the streetcar line enjoy spending time and money in the shops and restaurants that currently exist in the SN. If that’s true than why not support them in staying open through this. I don’t just mean with money but with action. If you like shopping at Tigertree and happy hour at Bodega etc…Then ask city council to help with grants or at the very least honest answers about what is coming.