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GlueSpace.org wrote
Columbus Needs a Streetcar
by Robbie Banks
February 4, 2008
The Columbus Streetcar will essentially be a monorail on the ground. Powered by electricity, streetcars are single-car transit vehicles that run on rails mixed with car traffic on city streets. With approximately 100,000 downtown employees, 30,000 students attending college downtown, 4,500 downtown residents and over 1 million conventioneers visiting downtown annually, the streetcar system will link these potential riders to attractions, destinations, neighborhoods and offices.
Comments
- itinerantfoodie: Not one mention of Huntington Park or their sparse advertising. (Seriously
- Liz Samuelson: Why can't they just pay someone to do it versus a contest? I really like t
- RichLauro: Awesome! Good for Justin and best wishes!!
- Liz Samuelson: @jpizzow – Thank you for the compliment, yes lots of potential and lots o
- Taz Devil: Oh, and it should be finished soon considering that they work late into the
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Columbus Needs a Streetcar on GlueSpace.org
By: Walker
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You can’t deny the #’s… “An economic impact study prepared by Danter and Associates, found that Columbus streetcars would create $764 million in economic impact after five years of operation.”
I hope this comes sooner rather than later. I will definitely use this all the time. Noone likes to fight for parking or pay a cabby, hopefully it’ll run later hours also… Any form of a chauffeur will be lovely. :P
I hope this comes sooner rather than later. I will definitely use this all the time. Noone likes to fight for parking or pay a cabby, hopefully it’ll run later hours also… Any form of a chauffeur will be lovely. :P
My greatest happiness from the street cars will be if they run up to 3 AM.
My greatest happiness from the street cars will be if they run up to 3 AM.
+1
MADD should be all over this too.
marriedtothesea.com
hopefully they aren’t going with the horsesubway system. :lol:
LauraA, you just made my day!
Okay, the horse has been beat…I will submit to whatever demands you ask as long as I don’t see another post about streetcars in Columbus and how fabulous they are and how much we need them.
You probably won’t see too many more new posts about Streetcars as we’re going to be getting the first Streetcar line up and running fairly soon.
Then we can talk about additional lines, regional light rail, and continue to talk about the Ohio Hub plan. :D
Why don’t you want to read about them anymore? Are you not a fan of economic development? :?
umm…
“Columbus does NOT need a streetcar” -or perhaps- “Streetcars fulfill a small though expensive niche in a larger Public Mobility architecture.”
My name is Josh, I graduated from CCAD in 2007 with a degree in Industrial Design. My thesis project was to examine the issues experienced by COTA & its ridership, and develop real-world, current solutions for those problems. I have watched the conversations on ColumbusUnderground regarding public mobility, and have remained silent mostly because it’s an enormous topic and I never have the time to fully explain my opinions. -which I do not now, either- But I’ll say this:
Transportation technologies have strengths and weaknesses, to effectively create good, reliable public mobility which everybody wants, these technologies must be appropriately deployed.
Buses are effective in that they are cheaply obtained, very flexible in routing -because they can travel on nearly any city street- and if one breaks down, the entire system still functions because of their large numbers.
Subways/Elevated Trains are effective in that they exist in an exclusive corridor from the rest of the city, this is an enormous advantage in completely eliminating traffic and weather conditions. This means that Subways/E-Trains can be made much more reliable -and moving under a city is much more rapid than through the city streets. They can be powered through their rails, by a municipally-owned power source, reducing wasted fuel and emissions.
Streetcars/Trolleys have NEITHER of these advantages, indeed they have disadvantages of both. (with the exception of being powered by electricity) Streetcars operate on fixed rails, which are prohibitively expensive to install and remove. Streetcars operate on the street level, which makes them susceptible to traffic & weather conditions. Should city planners grant exclusive lanes to Streetcars, this would actually increase traffic congestion and reduce the streetcars’ speed. If a large number of streetcars were deployed along the route, that would help matters, so long as they were being utilized in numbers that exceeded current COTA bus ridership.
The primary need for rails is to provide a conduit-collection power source for the vehicle. When Streetcars/Trolleys were first deployed with electricity the rails were necessary, as the battery technology was so primitive, and the Streetcars needed an ample power source. Advances in battery technology make it feasible to deploy fully-electric buses that have no need for rails, and all of the limitations therein.
I’m having a hard time limiting the length of this post.
Anyways, theres my $.02; now yes, rip me a new a**hole :D
Hey! Welcome to the site! :D
I’m surprised no one has jumped on this. Perhaps people are tired of arguing about this. It’s been a long two years of it.
Anyway, you did a pretty good job of listing the negatives where you wanted to and the positives where you wanted to. Which is the proper way to make a persuasive argument, but leaves out a lot of information that people deserve to know about when making a descision on whether or not to support rail transit development. Allow me to fill in just a few blanks.
Busses are ineffective in Columbus because:
- Our city is too spread out to offer effective lines to properly move passengers to their destinations
- Their cheapness casts a negative image over them. Many people think that busses are for poor people, dirty people, and crazy people. They think busses are unsafe and unclean. And while it may not be true, perception is everything.
- Busses are also susceptible to traffic and weather causing their time schedules to frequently be off kilter
- The fact that bus lines can change on a whim does nothing to encourage transit-oriented growth. When was the last time you heard a company choosing a location for their business because of the accessibility of a bus line?
Subways or Elevated Trains would not be effective in Columbus because:
- They are the most expensive option listed here and would have a very slim chance of being approved by the tax-paying population for construction. The COTA Light Rail project got shot down twice (which mostly included right-of-way passenger rail) because of the Billion+ price tag
- Moving our people off the streets and into underground or overhead passages reduces the amount of foottraffic on the sidewalks which would have a negative impact on street-level businesses as well as make our sidewalks less safe with fewer eyes to watch them.
Streetcars would be highly effective in Columbus because:
- They are the least expensive rail transit option and a great way to start our city out to then expand to other forms of regional rail transit.
- The fixed rails in the streets offer a permanence that businesses will relocate to. Many cities across the US have had huge economic booms along their newly developed streetcar lines.
- The traffic in Columbus is not dense enough for street-grade rail to have much of a negative impact upon commute times. The amount of cars displaced by people riding the streetcar would keep our roads open as well as our parking lots less full.
- The streetcar lines replacing some bus lines would free up COTA resources to better serve neighborhoods that currently have less adequate service.
- Streetcars have sex appeal. They do not suffer from the same negative stigma that COTA busses do and therefore would attracted a broader range in terms of ridership.
- Streetcars would provide Columbus with a much needed image boost on a national level and would draw plenty of national news attention in the same way that Skybus has done
- Streetcars would connect urban neighborhoods in a way that COTA busses do not. Our Convention Center brings a lot of visitor traffic to the area immediately surrounding it, but very few visitors care to ride our bus system. A simple streetcar line would give those visitors an easy way to explore our city.
Ok. That’s all for being off the top of my head. I’m sure I missed plenty of other bits of data though. Anyone else care to fill in more? :D
I see a bigger picture…What is hurting our infrastructure is urban sprawl, something adding the streetcar doesn’t really seem to help. Most people live in the suburbs, so having something that just links urban neighborhoods is not helping to solve this problem. We need something that helps link up the first and second tier suburbs with our downtown. I don’t think we should do something because it is cheaper than the better alternative and more likely to get passed by voters. I think it would be a real problem if the streetcar comes, ends up being a big flop, and we should have just spent that money on solving the real problems.
Walker since you are an urbanite, I totally see how this benefits you, however majority of Columbus isn’t and probably will never use this streetcar system because of that fact. I will probably never use this streetcar system (but would use a subway or monorail as they would go to the suburbs), so what would be the benefit for me to vote yes on it?
Alright I am done talking about this cause this is the sos and just keeps going round and round.
Walker since you are an urbanite, I totally see how this benefits you, however majority of Columbus isn’t and probably will never use this streetcar system because of that fact. I will probably never use this streetcar system (but would use a subway or monorail as they would go to the suburbs), so what would be the benefit for me to vote yes on it?
COTA & MORPC attempted regional light rail and the voters turned it down TWICE because it was deemed too expensive. I think it’s going to take a smaller and less expensive system like a Streetcar to give Columbus a taste of rail transit and then we can think about growing that system to reach every neighborhood in the region.
And yes, the Streetcar will directly benefit anyone who lives/works/plays (ugh) downtown by giving them a daily transit alternative, but again… in the bigger picture the economic development brought on by the streetcar will indirectly affect everyone. A healthier economy will help everyone… whether they ride the streetcar or not.
Yeah and if its a big flop, it will definitely hurt the chances of anything else ever being approved. I will never see this as the answer nor do I see how this is going to bring as big of an economic impact as people think.
1) I agree with you that if we never make a decision, we’ll never make a bad one.
2) You’re chosing to ignore the experience gained by similar cities like Portland and Charlotte. If you ignore the facts, then you’re difficult to convince.
Good talk Russ.
A minute ago you said you’d support regional rail transit that would link the suburbs together with downtown. How can you say that wouldn’t be a flop? Do you have any factual data to show how successful one vs another might be, or are these just gut feelings you have?
Again, a Streetcar isn’t the “answer” to transit issues in Columbus. It is a step in the right direction and a small part of a larger transportation network.
I also take this to mean that once the Streetcar is built, you won’t ever ride it. I’ll be keeping an eye on you. ;)
There’s literally hundreds of resources I could point you to that will show plenty of professional research on the economic development that rail transit can bring to a city. Here’s a good place to start:
http://downtowncolumbus.com/development/docs/Danter_Study.pdf
But there’s no sense in you reading it if your eyes are going to be closed.
Streetcars have sex appeal. They do not suffer from the same negative stigma that COTA busses do and therefore would attracted a broader range in terms of ridership.
The perception that I’m getting is there is a segment of society that knows little about the realities of COTA and in order to service this segment, we’re spending money to build them sexy streetcars. Is there some magic that is going to prevent the same perception of buses to be eventually misapplied to streetcars? And when that happens are we going to have to fund a new transportation option for those folks who find something else new and sexy?
While your other arguments certainly have merit, this alone turns me off on the entire project.
Citing Urban sprawl and lack of density as arguments for connecting suburbs to downtown via light rail does not compute. Making it easier for people to live in the suburbs doesn’t stop urban sprawl, it encourages it. At this rate, we will need a second outerbelt in 20 years, and a map of Columbus will look like a donut. Light rail doesn’t make sense if it takes less time to drive from your suburban home to your job downtown, than driving to a parking lot, waiting for a train, taking train downtown (with multiple stops along the way) and then walking(?) to your job.
Fixed tracks connecting key districts downtown does make sense as a starting point. I would prefer driving in from the suburbs, parking and then using the streetcar to get around all the far flung districts and neighborhoods, then any option available today. Also, fixed tracks encourage development BECAUSE they are fixed (see Portland). Downtown and outlying areas within the outerbelt need to be much denser before light rail becomes feasible.
I haven’t seen anywhere that street cars will not share lanes with cars. Can anyone shed light on that?
While your other arguments certainly have merit, this alone turns me off on the entire project.
The image problems that COTA faces is something that will really only change once more people experience riding the bus first hand. How they go about doing that is a mystery to me with no easy answer. I don’t like the negative perception of the bus system… but it is something that should be taken into consideration.
I think building a streetcar will change people’s perception of “mass transit” in Columbus and if anything increase bus ridership in the process.
I don’t think of it as building a streetcar for the rich/clean/sane people to ride instead of the bus… I think of it as something to introduce people who may not give the busses a fair shot a way to experience mass transit in our town and open their eyes to a broader system that would include improved bus transit and additional rail development.
I’m also willing to bet that the bus lines will be altered so that streetcars and busses aren’t serving the exact same route. So we won’t really have a scenario of “here some the crappy bus, I’ll wait for the next nice streetcar instead”.
Streetcars have sex appeal. They do not suffer from the same negative stigma that COTA busses do and therefore would attracted a broader range in terms of ridership.
The perception that I’m getting is there is a segment of society that knows little about the realities of COTA and in order to service this segment, we’re spending money to build them sexy streetcars. Is there some magic that is going to prevent the same perception of buses to be eventually misapplied to streetcars? And when that happens are we going to have to fund a new transportation option for those folks who find something else new and sexy?
While your other arguments certainly have merit, this alone turns me off on the entire project.
Change is inevitable. Yes streetcars will go out of style and be perceived as cheap and dirty. No matter what you build this will eventually happen. The best we can do is build something that can be upgraded without a complete infrastructure overhaul.
In the past two years, I’ve ridden light rail and street cars in cities all over the country. If you’ve ever taken a street car, it’s impossible to compare the experience to a bus. It’s sexy, yes, because it’s not the bus. That’s it. I am sure that street cars will be extremely popular here if they would just get built already. And street cars will be for people who will actually ride them– the city folks. :wink: I think everyone will be amazed by the development that will pop up in the near blocks served by the streetcars. I can’t wait. But damn what a dissapointment it will be if they don’t get built.
So, earlier I wasn’t espousing one system or another, simply outlining the technological limitations of each. I wrote it that way because, in the example of a streetcar I can describe the negatives of the previous two, as streetcars share all of their negatives. The truth is, in building a TRULY effective, useful public mobility system, Columbus would need all of those systems (bus, subway, trolley) integrated in different scenarios. Even Streetcars!
-Streetcars would be effective in a very specific scenario, providing frequent short-range service to a small number of very popular destinations. The question (for me, and hopefully others) is: does Columbus have popular enough destinations to make the expense of such a service useful and wanted? And isn’t this a service that Buses could perform? For the millions and millions that are about to be spent -or have already been- Couldn’t we:
1.Reorganize both the bus routing system and update its rider interfaces for the first meaningful time since 1973?
2.Re-equip a portion of the fleet with fully electric systems and the necessary powering stations?
3.ReBrand, Reposition and Reach out to the students, yuppies and progressives that clog this city and its streets in their cars? -who find buses to be yucky.
I realize that action is necessary, but its a lot of our money, and I fear its about to go down the tubes. The Pro-Streetcar folks seem to be on the precipice of admitting that it’s a primarily aesthetic decision, not a utility based one. This whole ‘Sure, I’ll ride the streetcar once we have it’ attitude reminds me alot of the ‘Sure, I’ll go out more once the smoking ban happens’ …and that didn’t really happen.
So, how many of you are actually riding the bus now?
The truth is, getting people out of their cars requires a lot of assurances, which requires a lot of substance (trust), not a gimmicky Streetcar. Substance, developed over years of consistent, clean, efficient, inexpensive service for the entirety of the metro area.
Everyone has the same goals; making things better in our fantastic city. To have convenient, sexy, reliable public mobility that goes until 3am and is tourist-friendly and business attractive. I cannot support the Street Car project because it doesn’t address the larger issues regarding public mobility in our city.