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Does Columbus desire streetcars?
Thursday, July 17, 2008
BY TIM DOULIN
While city officials retool their proposal for a Downtown streetcar line, the debate over whether the city needs one continued yesterday. But the discussion at a Metropolitan Club luncheon didn’t come any closer to resolving the question.
With rising energy costs, the time is right for a $103 million, 2.8-mile streetcar line on High Street from Downtown to the Ohio State University campus area, proponents said. And it would boost development along and near that corridor, they say. “We need a more balanced and diversified transportation system for this region to grow,” said Chester Jourdan, MORPC executive director.
Developer Robert Weiler, a COTA board member who said he was speaking on his own behalf, not on behalf of COTA, led the debate against a streetcar, saying Columbus already has a fabulous rapid-transit system. “It’s called the freeway.”
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CMC: Does Columbus desire streetcars?
By: noozer
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“Why do we need streetcars, we already have a rapid transit system…. the freeways.”
–Robert Weiler, real estate developer and one of our representatives on the COTA Board of Trustees.
*facepalm*
yeah…
It pisses me off that the Dispatch thinks the opinions of the people that could afford a $35 “discussion” at the Athletic Club about streetcars matter.
Columbus is generally above allowing a cabal of “City Elders” and developers run the town on their whims. Hope that keeps holding true.
Pardon me for the unwieldy chains of prepositional phrases.
“Why do we need streetcars, we already have a rapid transit system…. the freeways.”
I saw that story and I couldn’t believe that statement. On a positive note, I like that sound bite and totally agree that we are behind the curb. I place more blame on the state, but we do need to get building.
Irony? 8) :lol:
That’s a very interesting statistic! I’d be interested in knowing more about that. Specifically, how does this break down when you separate initial construction ballot issues vs. expansion issues, and how does it break down vis-a-vis streetcars vs. light rail. The former is actually of more concern to me, because that would make a difference in whether it would be good strategy to think about putting a rail-based public transit issue on the ballot in one of the next few elections. (Remember, if that stat is true across the board, Columbus is in the other 18%, having failed to pass a light rail levy years ago.)
The latter breakdown is of less concern to me, especially because some people really might not have gotten the difference between streetcars and light rail, and the definition of the latter is so fluid that it might well even overlap with that of streetcars to some city councils (meaning they might have put a ballot issue out for “light rail” and basically meant a streetcar–I can’t cite an example, obviously, but I can see it happening just because of the ambiguity of the terms).
Yeah, $35 to have your voice heard? CMC has nothing on CU. We have better debaters and it’s actually open to the public.
If a truly city (county)-wide light rail measure were on the ballot, I think there would be FAR more support there would be for a High Street streetcar line alone. Most people in the burb areas are set against the streetcar not because they think it’s a waste of money or a bad idea, but because they are sick of wasting gas and time commuting into downtown.
I completely understand that starting small is normally the best bet. But if it comes to a ballot issue, I think that if we don’t offer the whole kit and kaboodle, we’ll lose the vote.
I completely understand that starting small is normally the best bet. But if it comes to a ballot issue, I think that if we don’t offer the whole kit and kaboodle, we’ll lose the vote.
Given the fate of the extant streetcar proposal now, you obviously have some recent evidence on your side. That said, I still think that there’s no way a light rail system, if installed without last-mile transportation, would attract enough ridership to be successful. That would mean failed levies and declining support in the future.
(Then again, it might be possible to build both at once, possibly even off separate levies from separate years, since the construction of both would take multiple years.)
Streetcar should be a city project; light rail a county or regional project.
I disagree about ridership. People won’t be willing to perpetually absorb the cost of $4 or higher gas and rising parking fees. There is a breaking point, and I think we’ve reached it. Folks who chose a New Albany condo five years ago aren’t excited about their hour long communte and $50 fill-ups anymore.
I think the best thing we could do to affect public opinion is not to predict how great a future light rail system will be for everyone (because you can’t bank on a prediction,) but to look back and show where lines used to run before everyone had a car. Nostalgia for a simpler time is so in right now.
I completely understand that starting small is normally the best bet. But if it comes to a ballot issue, I think that if we don’t offer the whole kit and kaboodle, we’ll lose the vote.
Maybe BOTH as ballot issues.
issue 1 : build a street car and start small with last mile solution for High st.
issue 2: massive and sorely needed rail option in conjunction with ohiohub, AND last mile solutions for downtown and other places. issue 2 to include issue 1 if passed.
I wonder if that would work… the light rail issue failed badly before, but this is a totally different climate now.
I still think that there’s no way a light rail system, if installed without last-mile transportation, would attract enough ridership to be successful. That would mean failed levies and declining support in the future.
+1
“Why do we need streetcars, we already have a rapid transit system…. the freeways.”
–Robert Weiler, real estate developer and one of our representatives on the COTA Board of Trustees.
Is this really the representation we deserve? Will somebody please send this dinosaur off to his suburban tar pit?
I wasn’t able to go, but if I would have heard that I dont think I could have held back. All I can say is wow. Change? Why Change, everything is perfect now right?
I’m completely lost as to how we get started. I think at this point, we’re just hoping for a sea change in the federal funding system. We seem to be too cheap to pay for these projects on our own.
A comprehensive light rail plan would probably mean a 0.5 or 0.75% increase in sales tax. A less comprehensive plan might be able to be done with a 0.25% increase. A start small ballot approach for the streetcar would be shot down by the “what’s in it for me?” voters. I don’t know that any of these have a prayer of passing in the near-term. This city is unbelievably cynical.
It’s also important to note that COTA won’t be associated with any ballot issues until mid-next decade because of some “promise to the voters”.
In other words…we appear to be stuck with what we’ve got for now.
This pisses me off the most. It was the same at the City Council meeting as well where a string of people got up and identified themselves with some impressive affliation, then said they were speaking for themselves.
Pick one. Speak as priviate citizen/who you represent or STFU about your affliations.
He should be kicked off the COTA board.
A.
Andrew, I say we send letters to Mr. Weiler and COTA to recommend such a measure.
Robert Weiler Co
http://www.rweiler.com
41 S High St # 1010
Columbus, OH 43215
(614) 221-4286
COTA
Administrative Offices
1600 McKinley Avenue
Columbus, Ohio 43222
(614) 275-5800
Light rail usually includes a “last mile” solution. Most light rail lines get into the street at some point and have several stops in downtown. The proposal for the North Corridor line that failed included getting off of the railroad tracks at 17th, taking 3rd & 4th to and from downtown, and then using High Street within downtown to Mound or so.
He should be kicked off the COTA board.
+1
Clearly we do not need his brand of car centric “wisdom” on the board of our TRANSIT AUTHORITY.
It’s like putting Jeff Dalmer in charge of the YMCA.
I nominate Walker Evans !
Let me know if anyone is starting a petition of any sort.
This pisses me off the most. It was the same at the City Council meeting as well where a string of people got up and identified themselves with some impressive affliation, then said they were speaking for themselves.
Pick one. Speak as priviate citizen/who you represent or STFU about your affliations.
He should be kicked off the COTA board.
A.
A big +1 to all of that, and then some. The potential conflicts of interest are astounding… and, yeah, screw that ‘speaking for himself’ noise, he’s clearly speaking as someone who has the benefit of understanding the inner workings of existing public transportation (and perhaps how various different proposals/ideas could chip away at COTA if implemented?)
Sam Hendren, WOSU Reporter
Columbus Mayor Coleman’s streetcar proposal was debated today at the Columbus Metropolitan Club. Coleman wants to build a 103-million-dollar line that would connect downtown with Ohio State University along North High Street.
Backers of the mayor’s streetcar plan say it’s essential to revitalizing downtown Columbus. Bob Weiler, chairman of a real estate brokerage firm was adamant in his opposition: he said a streetcar line connecting downtown with Ohio State was unnecessary because 15 COTA bus lines already provide service to the area.
READ MORE
LISTEN ALL’YALL IT’S A SABOTAGE!!
Weiler’s sabotaging transit from the inside out. He should be charged with transit treason.