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Last summer, Nationwide Realty Investors announced plans for a new apartment building and grocery store development on the northwest side of the Arena District, at the corner of Vine & Neil. The grocery store was dropped from the plans earlier this year, but as of today, the apartments are still moving forward.
The new project is called the “Flats on Vine” and will contain 232 apartment units housed in two 3-story buildings at the southeast corner of Neil Avenue and Vine Street. Amenities include a swimming pool and fitness center for tenants.
Construction is scheduled to begin in October, with a late-2010-early-2011 completion date.
The apartments will be a mix of studio, one-bedroom and two-bedroom units with rents ranging between $700 and $1,500 per month and sizes ranging between 500 sqft and 1200 sqft.
Renderings below:
I have no problem with them and I think with some good exterior lighting they could look great. The Renaissance is only 3 stories, with fewer windows and looks great. I do like, what looks to be, the floor to ceiling windows.
OK Let’s rephrase a few components of the project and step back for a second.
First Let’s focus on density and land use. If you put some basic math together you’ll find a density of 58 units per acre – three times that of suburban models prevalent in Columbus. Continue that line of thought and you’ll soon find a diagram that must incoporate a susbstantial amount of structured parking to support the 300 – 350 car requirement to build a project of this magnitude.
Second As an urbanist, unless we’re discussing prominent civic structures, architectural character is subservient to density, form, and land use. While we’re each entitled to our first glance opinion’s let us acknowledge that this project, although seemingly built with brick veneer, does not replicate a ye-olde-fake-facade-itecture as other residential projects recently approved by the downtown commission and currently being constructed in the CBD.
Third While we’re all anxious for additional residential development blocks from the State House, let’s discuss how this residential in the North Market District and Arena District strengthen those neighborhoods and build on momentum. 350 residents will provide additional daily support to those district’s many component’s and help to legitimize and diversify the current high concentration of bar and entertainment uses – some of which have a lifespan. Dwelling units provide real sustainability and longevity to any neighborhood.
For all the urban enthusiast out the did anyone watch the pbs program e2 from grey to green. Most to all of the things everyone is talking about is in the program and if you watch the entire series it will cover most to all of the problems we are facing concerning a better eco economy. I urge you to watch it. So that when the next project comes along we can beg plead force our decision makers to make better decisions about the way we build.
I didnt want to give away the program but in the program an inovative man takes old highway sections of the big dig in Boston and builds a house with the help of visionary architects. The design was amazing and the process was even more amazing. Also they didnt just stop at a single family house the architects enter a competition by metropolitan magazine and won 10 000 cash prize for the concept.
How does this relate to Columbus you ask? Welllll aren t demolishing a bridge and a 40 000sf building downtown? Maybe one day grey to green will become a standard(only) practice in Columbus. and thats only one show. Watch them all http://www.fancast.com/tv/e2:-The-Economies-of-Being-Environmentally-Conscious/98012/full-episodes They cover all the issuses everyone is talking about.
I would love to have a dialog maybe in another thread about how we can make incorporate these into projects in Columbus.
So, j-pons, do you work for the developer or the architect? Given that you think that architectural character is subservient to everything else, I would guess the developer.
First, it can have greater density and still be a suburban style development. From what I can see here, it does absolutely nothing to acknowledge the site (Anyone have a site plan?) You could drop this anywhere and it wouldn’t make a difference. I can’t tell from the renderings but it looks like nothing opens to the street and this is all single use. Not really a good urban model.
And you get no sympathy for the amount of required parking. Parking variances can always be approved and parking requirements reduced. As an urbanist, this shouldn’t be a surprise to you. But thats not really about urbanism, is it? Thats about the bottom line and most people want two parking spots.
Second, why can’t architectural character, density, form, and land use inform and support each other? Why does one have to be subservient? And while this isn’t ye olde whatever, it certainly does not come off as fresh and new. It looks like trendy “modern” detailing that would have really wowed the shit out of people about 15 years ago.
I think HeySquare is on to something, this might look really cool with buff brick. It’s a totally different building type than the rest of the Arena District, so why stick with the red brick? The new courthouse downtown is successfully pulling off a slightly retro look that this project could get to. The developer and architect do get credit for not doing the Bunch of Buildings Mashed Together look that is so popular these days.
Third, I agree with your last point. More people in the area is always better. Lets just do it in a way thats not going to look like a mistake in 10-20 years. Let’s acknowledge that sometimes nothing really is better than something (not saying that this is necessarily the case here).
Ok, this is a very negative board about a very positive topic…
1. Before judging the architecture from the renderings, I would take a look at Brewers Gate near Greenlawn. It’s similar in style and looks very cool.
2. A purely residential use is OK in a downtown… In fact, this will help focus retail more towards the areas where it is most appropriate (High Street, North Market area, etc.) This site is a tough ground floor retail site…
3. Providing adequate parking for residents is just a must downtown if we want to attract more than just the hardcore urbanists…that is in fact the only way we develop out our downtown…thank Goodness NRI has the money and the vision to do it right (with nicely disguised garages). Please keep in mind that we are trying to get 30-40 thousand people living downtown, thats never going to happen in Columbus and in our lifetimes without relatively convenient parking.
4. lets be careful about jumping all over NRI, sure I wish they were doing more in the CBD, but they are the largest and most successful infill developer around…
[quote]mbeaumont Says:
September 29th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
We don’t want a third grocery store, we want a good grocery store. God bless the North Market, but the Neil Avenue Giant Eagle is just crap. I was really looking forward to a new, urban-style Giant Eagle in the AD. [/quote]
I couldn’t agree more. The Giant Eagle has reached the end of the road. The neighborhood has outgrown it and along with Short North/Italian Village/AD needs a grocery upgrade.
Agree that taller structures have more “wow” factor. However, that Northbank tower just down the street looks to me at night that it’s maybe 10% occupied based on the number of lights on. The market demands less expensive housing than can be offered by building a 15 story tower from scratch. It’s better than what’s there now.
Has anyone watched the PBS show yet? some of the answers you seek can be found in the shows content(between the full series)… and how . How do you forget that there is a the BD kroger and the wienland park kroger . how many do you need in 2 mile radius .
The thing about the BD Kroger is the prices are higher then most Kroger’s. I know that sounds crazy. However, I went to get some green peppers one time there and they were 3.99/lb, The Kroger near my home they are only 1.39/per lb. Even the meat cost more. So now, I just stay near home.
http://columbus.bizjournals.com/columbus/stories/2009/09/28/daily13.html?ana=tt3245
MissKitty – Prices fluctuate at grocery stores on a weekly basis. I don’t know if I’d use a “one time” stop for two items as an overall gauge of price differences between stores.
I agree with the folks who say that the VV Giant Eagle isn’t that great. But I think an overhaul to the store is more in order than the opening of another new store in this area. The GV GE just went through some nice upgrades and it’s made some improvements there.
And I just wanted to agree with pretty much everything that Tree Sketcher said. This is a new residential development Downtown. There’s a ton of positives about that, with a handful of negatives, but that’s about all that anyone is fixating on here. Which is what I said earlier… some people are scoring this project as an 89% F (See me after class, NRI).
…just as some people are scoring it as a 25% A. See me after class, Walker ;)
Heeeyyyy…. I see what you did there!
I think these look great,, although the logo up on the building looks kind of cheesy to me.
As for the VV Giant Eagle, what is so bad about it that everyone always complains? It’s not very big, but I shop there and have never left thinking it was terrible and needed to be replaced. Maybe there’s just something about the way I shop that I miss what is wrong?
#51
Walker Says:
October 1st, 2009 at 7:51 pm
MissKitty – Prices fluctuate at grocery stores on a weekly basis. I don’t know if I’d use a “one time†stop for two items as an overall gauge of price differences between stores.”
Yes, I am aware that prices on food changes. This was a same day visit. I would not have mentioned it if there was a lapse of days in my food store visit.
I suppose maybe I should examine this more to see if it holds true a lot more then one occasion.
Right, they can fluctuate from store to store on a same-day basis. I guess I didn’t explain my thought too well. ;) Despite grocery stores being chains, they tend to price very differently from community to community. I’m just saying that on a different week (or different item) you might find same-day visits to those stores to have opposite pricing.
I’ve heard the same thing discussed when talking about price differences between Kroger & Giant Eagle as well. I’d love to see some sort of real price comparison between the stores that factor in all locations, a variety of items, and a longer timeline of visits. Would be very difficult to do, but would be the only real way of figuring out on average which stores are more or less expensive than others.
Alas… I digress. There is no new grocery store being built here. Just affordable Downtown rentals. Where’s “urbanboi” when you need him? ;)
in regards to the Grocery Store issue – i would say the optimal solution would be a location in or near the Jeffrey. i believe it was proposed with the original development, but we’ve all seen how that’s going…..
there’s just such a big gap on that side of the Short North, it would be a great addition/draw to any further developments on that side of High St.
Im still Around ;)…..Its great the area surrounding the downtown core is adding more housing units but obviously if you look at the design Nationwide realty are building the cheapest way they can get by with..What are they thinking with this design? Its so generic and plain :(
lbl Says: there’s just such a big gap on that side of the Short North…
The Jeffrey isn’t really too far from Arena Produce. Not a traditional grocery store (nor a pleasant walk down Second Avenue), but it’s still good to have as a neighbor.
Urbanboi Says: Obviously if you look at the design Nationwide realty are building the cheapest way they can get by with.
Now that you mention it… it would be nice if NRI spent a ton of money on making these as nice as possible and then rented them out at a loss to keep them affordable. ;)
I was in Pittsburgh last weekend…I must say what a city! Not quite as large in population as columbus but thats only because the land usage here is greater..Its much more dense that columbus… they are buiding alot of apartments at a cheaper rate in Shady side, east liberty and the southside. I also noticed a Giant Eagle, whole foods or some other urban shopping center on every corner. People actually walking everywhere. I think Columbus should look to the neighbor to the east for some advice on urban development.